Quote: yuko blum

That's so neat, thanks Sandy!

What would you do if your pup always sticks close to you and refuses to leave your sight? lol
Mine will do anything I ask if he can see me, but the second I disappear behind a bush or change rooms, it's over

Sounds like my guy If you're talking specifically about the "find", initially (trying to remember cause hadn't thought of that) yes, I was in sight. But with "find" my son, it was only a short time before he would go on his own. He would have to go to another room to do it (computer room), would "find" him then ran back to be with me. For other objects, I would have to be in sight initially, but now if I'm in the kitchen which opens into the back yard, he'll go find an object out back when I tell him. Sometimes he wants me to be in sight at the door, sometimes he doesn't care. I just figure however he does it right now is fine, since he's only 6 months. A couple of times I nonchalantly told him to go find something, not really expecting him to do it, since there wasn't any excitement in my voice, turned around to see him standing there with it. Oh yeah, forgot to mention I have excitement in my voice most of the time when saying "find", and over the top praise (good "find"!) when he finds the object.

Just to mention, I'm not going to be training him to track (at least not in the current plan), so don't know if how I've taught him "find" would interfere with future tracking training if you intend to do that with your pup.

Have used a prong daily since he was about 9 or 10 months old. I use the prong on him anytime we walk on leash. He almost never needs corrections but we walk with it due to my enjoyment of the "power steering for dogs" method. I say never because I don't interact with people for the most part when I'm walking with him so there's really nothing for which to correct him.

I use an e-collar every time we walk off-leash. He needs corrections with that maybe once in every 5 or more walks. A person w/dog is walking on other side of street and I tell him to sit (to wait while they pass). He'll break his sit and that's when I'll correct him.

Regarding corrections, I know to correct for infractions, even when he corrects himself. This isn't the problem.

Regarding distractions, every day I have a session with him that includes all commands. One command is "Achtung!". He knows to look at my face and not move a muscle or his eyes from my face during this command. After he perfected it, I enlisted my kids to try to distract him. To this day, we do this command under a variety of distraction: they call his name, they say, "Let's Play"!, they offer treats, they do it all and he won't break the command! I do this with them at least 5 times a week.

I did this command at my house on Christmas Day with 27 people in the room - he was in the center of the room doing all the commands he knows and no problem. The command for Achtung! impressed everyone. During the command some of those 27 people both known to him and new to him called his name, jumped up and down, screamed and nothing - my dog didn't move a muscle. He wouldn't look at anyone but me!! He was outstanding.

Why can't I get that same focus when we're out and about on a walk and a dog or puppy enters the picture???

Since age appears to you not to be the issue, would I be better off using positive reinforcment or corrections? I.E. On walk and a puppy is nearby that I know. I let them say hi and then put him in a down/stay. I think he'll break the sit so I tell him OK sooner then I'd like but give a treat and a praise and try again in a few minutes. OR...would you have him sit/down the length of time that I want - say 3 minutes and correct him w/the prong or e-collar if he gets up?

Yuko, I'll PM you with how I trained the "Go get Kevin/Jesse" thing! It's really funny (and helpful)!

Judy, how cool with the "achtung"!! Also, could you post how you trained the "go get" instead of just pm'ing Yuko? I'd like to read it too

Judy, maybe he is getting a mixed message with you telling him it's ok to sat 'hi' & then downing him...at least at this stage of his training under heaver distractions. I would maybe not allow the 'hi' at this time until he is able to control himself & not break a command in the presence on the pup or other dogs. I also would not expect him to hold that down for 3 min at this time if that is a real problem with him....try for 15 sec the first few days to a week & then progress up to the 3 min over a period of time...you can alway go back to the lesser time & hold there for a while if he can't quite move up to the next level of time. Don't rush it. If you do you will only end up where you are now with a lack of complience. I would treat & praise only if he stays the time alloted & correct as needed. I would start as some one said in the yard if need be or the front yard if people & dogs pass by there before moving it to different locations. It take a long time to get a dog to hold a down under heavy distractions & other animals are a more difficult distraction, in my opinion, than people will ever be. Also, I would use the down & not the sit to start with...I think that the down requires more submission & takes more effort on the part of the dog to break the command than a sit does. I find that for long secure stays...I would use a down command not a sit until the down is perfected for a good period of time before changing the challenge to a sit. JMO Oh & BTW about the other post & Zasha doing commands from eye ques...she taught herself that I never taught it to her.

 Quote: Judy Troiano

... Why can't I get that same focus when we're out and about on a walk and a dog or puppy enters the picture???

Because you proofed against one distraction but not the other.

Editing to say that of course you don't and can't try to proof against all possible distractions, but people and dogs are two to choose, I think.

I had my sons go to their bedroom upstairs and position themselves that would make it easy for the dog to paw at them when he reached them. So for example, if they were sitting at their desk in the bedroom, I'd have my son stick his leg out from under the desk so the dog could easily see it. I didn't want my dog to learn to jump up on him to get his attention. I only wanted him to paw at my kids.

I'd tell Gunnar, "Go get Jesse" in a very excited voice and walk in the direction I wanted him to go (towards Jesse's bedroom). I also had a treat in my hand too. As we walked toward my son and up the stairs, I'd repeat the command a few times. When we reached my son, I said the command again and got my dog to stand right next to my son. At this point I took my dogs paw in my hand and pawed my son's ankle or calf with my dog's paw! I then said, "Good boy Gunnar" and gave him a treat. It took several times but he now knows that if I say, "Go Get Kevin(or Jesse)" that he has to paw them and then come running back to me. He tried barking at them a few times instead of paw them but I corrected this because I wanted the dog and my kids to know that if he is pawing you, it means he really wants something. Barking at them can be construed by my kids as the dog is wanting to play or wants to go out or maybe is just being a pain. So I wanted a distinction, which is where the pawing came in.

I didn't teach the pawing with anything else so, God forbid, I'm laying half dead in my backyard from a fall, he'll go paw one of my kids and they'll actually get off their teenage arses and come help me

Judy, great idea with the "go get". I see the difference you're talking about, with the pawing and "getting" a person rather than an object, that would definitely come in handy in an emergency. Great idea. I may want to add that eventually, saying "go get", and doing the pawing to differentiate from just the "find". Thanks for posting it.

Judy,
One thing you have to remember is that training obedience in your home field(back yard) is like saying my kids behave good when I'm there.So what happens when you take your dog out of his comfort zone, and train in an open area where lots of new smells flow around,
strangers are walking by,strange dogs/pups are inviting him over? He gets a bit unsecure or thinks its a free for all or your commands don't apply outside the home .Unless you have made your commands all secure away from home, he'll continue to brake his commands.The best way to work on that is doing your obedience where there are tons of distractions, in front of a grocery store, pet store, starbucks.I did that with all my dogs, thought people looked at me like I was crazy but for me I was serious about my ditraction training.As a matter of fact we have classes here that offer such distraction type of obedience class.But if you dont have that kind of opportunity to take a class like that ,do it on your own.Once a week when your off work or whatever go and find a spot like I describe and work on one or 2 exercise and finish on a good note. Doing any obedience at home is good but it's not enough for what you want to accomplish ,you need to take it outside and in a busy area.Take him out of his comfort zone and secure your commands.
You can do it , you have the foundation already now explore further!! Show line or not, he can do it..

Fab idea Angelique! I love Starbucks !

Seriously, I have never done that - trained him at or near stores that have people walking about. I'll try that. Although people aren't usually the problem that distracts him, it can't hurt. With enough luck, we'll meet a dog or two going in for their morning coffee too!

dogs are literalists. sit in the kitchen doesn't mean sit in the alley. stay in the garage doesn't mean stay in the park. you have to train everywhere, because the dog can't translate from one location to the next.

so increase the level of distractions by moving to increasingly more distracting locations while training. but do it incrementally.

now, this is probably a very unconventional method of teaching stay around other dogs, and maybe it wouldn't work with your dog, i don't know. but this is how i got a reliable stay from my dog, who is totally crazy for other dogs.

i use the other dogs as the reward! yeah, i taught him that if he sits and stays, he will (sometimes!) get to interact with the other dog.

it worked so well, he will sit/stay as soon as he sees another dog, and then look to me for permission to play. basically, he's offering me the stay behavior as a way to earn the reward of playing with the other dog. a great benefit is this gives me time to check out the other dog and make a decision about whether or not it is an appropriate playmate for him. if not, i don't release him and i tell the other dog's owner to keep their dog away.

start out in a controlled environment with a friend and a dog you know is a safe playmate. have the friend and her dog approach from a distance, put your dog in a stay for a length of time you are certain he will hold. then release him with an "OK! go play!" and let them play. repeat, gradually building up the length of time you ask for the stay, and always giving play with the other dog as a reward.

you have to do this so much, so gradually that he never breaks a stay, that he finally can no longer remember ever breaking a stay around another dog. it simply becomes ingrained in him that the sight of another dog means he sit/stays.

at that point, you can make the reward more unpredictable and intermittent. sometimes he doesn't get to play with the other dog.

when he'll hold the stay even if he doesn't get to play, you can start proofing him with unknown dogs.

btw, it sounds like you are doing a really terrific job with your dog. congratulations!