Sarah,

I'm not sure what Pike is really known for, but I've seen a number of dogs from his line that have excellent drive (prey & defense), very solid temperament & handle stress well.

Tom z Ps was a police dog in the Czech Republic and worked the streets at 8+ years old. I was told by a friend who is a Police Officer in the CR, that Tom is(was) a very nice dog and produced well.

Fado v Karthago was the 1989 WUSV champion and has a good production record.

Fax & Verwin, like Mink, are known to throw a good dose of aggression into a line.

I'd also add Byorka van Tiekerhook to the list. She was a Fero daughter (littermate to Bodo) that produced very well for Koos Hassing. I have seen a number of very nice Byorka offspring.

In regards to the titles...It's really not about the titles or the scores. If a dog scores well in many trials under different judges, he/she is probably a pretty darn good dog. It really pays to see particular dogs in action, this is really the only way to distinguish between dogs performing the same routine in a trial. Very talented trainers can carry a mediocre dog far, or a weak dog going from SchH1 - SchH3 and never repeating the 3 would never be known unless you see the dogs scorebook. A dog that is a working police dog in Germany, Holland, Belgium or the Czech Republic is most likely a damn good dog, but may or may not be a good producer...only breeding & time will reveal this.

John, I'm liking the names you put up. Especially since Xato is my dog's grand sire on his sire's side, and Cordon-Ansat is his G-grand sire on his dam's side.

Mike,
Since you mentioned karthago, I have a young male out of karthago line, he is a year old and pretty immature compare to the way my male(Yaggo) out of mink line was at that age, do you know any back ground on Karthago lineage? Late to mature?
Yaggo at 2 years of age was very civil. I can't see this young male be civil like that in a year.He has tons of prey drive but nothing on the civil side.
Not a huge concern , just curious on your thoughts

 Quote: John Haudenshield

Fax vom Haus Bernhart-Mader SchH3, IPO3, FH

I'll second that!

I'm a fan of Mink, Pike, and Gildo. I also like Belschik from what I've seen him produce.

Best way I can describe my dog who is linebred 4-4 on Mink is "wired". He is very, very reactive, and if you're not familiar with him you can easily say he is 'nervy'. However all his movements have been forward based and he has never shown avoidance to anything. I believe with Mink lines you are walking a fine line, if you don't breed to him intelligently you're going to end up with a wreck, if you breed to him intelligently you should get a certain 'flavour' of dog that may or may not be your cup of tea.

I like my dog for all his traits. You need to know how to work him properly but the fact is, he has a serious prey drive that never needs to be warmed up, and you can load him without movement, and he thrives on conflict--"fight" up the arse. Despite not being a dominant dog. He needs control; he does not need help or 'building drive'. For all of that I can easily see why some people like Mink and others don't.

Well said,
Mine loves conflict and handles himself with lots of confidence.
Someone had told me that you either love mink lineage or hate it.For me I love my male out of Mink but he is so uptight at times, like a grumpy guy.Our helpers love him but hate catching him , he comes with power and speed and always changes direction at the last minute on them.When he enters the field , everyone watches him, he is big but has speed.I know I'm bragging about him but what else can I do

Angelique,

In many posts you(and others)refer to dogs as being "civil". Does this mean a dog that is steady-nerved or well-mannered?

I apologize to all for leaping in here and changing the subject. A lot of this is very new to me and it is all so interesting.

 Quote: Sarah_Morris

Could you please tell me some of the best dogs

Mine

How bout Natan v Busecker Schloss? He's my female GSD's ggg grand father on her dad's side. Not much, but she's got a great temperment, tons of drive(ball(like Natan), prey, and even food).

Civil, while often argued, **generally** means a dog who will bite w/out equipment-in other words, a dog who is MORE LIKELY to bite "for real."