my dog "brings" under certain circumstances, but not yet all the time. she was an absolute joy to teach to fetch the paper (no going out in the snow for me!). i had her on a long line with my wife, i called out the command, put it in her mouth, then had my wife call her back to the door. every time she dropped it, i gave a mild verbal correction, put it back in her mouth, and continued the exercise. get inside the back door, drop it, and get a treat.

after a while she got the hang of it without the line, and i stopped treating... TOO EARLY (i think). she started dropping the paper wherever she felt like it, returning empty handed, or going off to sniff other stuff.

so i had her tied up and teased her with a "training paper" (yesterday's paper in the bag today's paper came in) for a minute or so, before tossing it out on the lawn, releasing her, and praise+food when she brought it back. is teasing her like this sort of like building drive? i haven't stopped treating yet (she's been doing it about two months), and she does it every time.

she'll play fetch, but only if she knows it's a game. that means i have to initiate it. if she's playing with a toy, she won't come to me with it on command.

she has no problem dropping something on command, a leftover from before i found this site - she understands that when i say drop it, i mean it and if she doesn't do it she'll get a spanking. with my next dog i'll have to learn to train this the right way!

oh, i've also been working on search games with strawberry milk bottles. the smell is pungent and she finds them quickly, and gets an instant reward of being allowed to chew them up.

but alas, no "bring me the object in your mouth" yet. if i call her, she almost always comes back empty handed.

Interesting point on the 2-ball. I believe you, but I just didn't run into that in my extensive experience using it to train one (1) dog . I was taught to start out with very, very short distances. Actually not even throwing the ball at all. Just sit on the ground and bounce it around (has to be on a string). When dog grabs it, it immediately goes "dead" and you say "Aus" and start tempting with the other ball. Do this for a while - week? 2 weeks? month? - then start throwing the ball, but just a couple feet. Increase distance over time.

Anyone else do it this way? Was I just lucky? I'd like to know, not just for my own future use, but so I don't screw someone else up!

Thanks

well here's what happens...I get an object, i.e. ball, rolled up towel, canvas doughnut, get him excited about playing with it...one of a few things will happen
1. he will run after it, start chomping on it and then lay down next to it and proceed to knaw.
2. he will run after it, grab it, I'll call him to me and then hell drop it and run to me without said object.
3. he will look at it look at me and then go eat more grass.
This grass thing is really out of control. His poops are grass with a little bit of waste. It's starting to worry me. Kind of almost obsessive about it.

All of the problems you mentioned can be fixed with a long line. Don't do retrieve work without a line until he's getting the idea. If the prob is he drops it as you call him, pull him to you steadily. This should help.

As for the grass, no idea. Never had that problem.

Edited to Add:

When you call him to you with the object, make sure you're using your "bring" or "fetch" command... That way, after some time, if he drops it mid-way you can say "no" and send him back to "fetch" or "bring" and he'll know what you mean. If you don't use the word then technically, if all you're doing is CALLING him, he's obeying whether he comes with or without the object. Really hard to then communicate that dropping the object is where his error is, you know?

Okay, jennifer that makes sense. Seems a tad bit on the toy possesive side. Doesn't ever want to give it up and is willing to fight for it. Once he gets it, he seems to want to horde it all to himself. Likes to go off by himself to chew on it and when I walk towards him to get it away he will get up and run away or he will clamp down his teeth so that I can't hardly get it away from him. I've tried to the food switch but then once he knows I have treats. It's all over anyway.

 Quote: robbinmann

Seems a tad bit on the toy possesive side. Doesn't ever want to give it up and is willing to fight for it. Once he gets it, he seems to want to horde it all to himself. Likes to go off by himself to chew on it and when I walk towards him to get it away he will get up and run away or he will clamp down his teeth so that I can't hardly get it away from him. I've tried to the food switch but then once he knows I have treats. It's all over anyway.

Well, you wanted a working GSD, right? This is all perfectly natural. If he WASN'T a bit possessive of the toy or willing to tug/fight for it, you'd have a problem! Work on teaching him the "out" now so that it doesn't escalate. I just did this with my cattle dogs by holding the toy, saying "out" once, and waiting for the dog to out even if it took 10 minutes. When he finally did, he got the toy back and happy praise. Eventually it might require some correction, but not in a 10-week-old pup. Just patience.

Lastly, he shouldn't have toys around, save for one or two chew bones or Kongs. The BEST toys should always be for use only with you. Things like bumpers, tugs, those are toys for play with you. He doesn't get them unless you're interacting with him. And when you are, he's on a long line and you work on the "out" during the play sessions.

By now you might be getting the impression that there is very little to no freedom for a working GSD puppy... If so, you're right! If you are doing it correctly the only freedom Levi has is when he's safely confined in his crate. All out-of-crate time is supervised and constructive, and in all honesty he might be crated for upwards of 22 hours of the day in total (assuming say 4 30-minute play/training sessions per day)! If you don't do this, you're setting yourself up for major problems down the road.

"out" meaning let go? or drop it? So it is perfectly okay that he about takes half my hand off (dang those little teeth hurt) every time I play with him with the towel or other object? lol He doesn't like the kong, only when I put cream cheese in it and then he only will lick for a while. He seems to have a real, do it if I feel like it attitude about life.

 Quote: robbinmann

"out" meaning let go? or drop it? So it is perfectly okay that he about takes half my hand off (dang those little teeth hurt) every time I play with him with the towel or other object? lol He doesn't like the kong, only when I put cream cheese in it and then he only will lick for a while. He seems to have a real, do it if I feel like it attitude about life.

Out can mean let go or drop it. Either or both. It means both to my dogs. And no it isn't okay if he hurts you! He has to respect your hands. If he bites your hands, immediately correct him (verbally) and request the "out"... It gets faster each time, remember that.

And yes, the Kong isn't a super-high value toy... Hence the reason he's allowed to have it. The good toys have to equal YOU, remember that's the point.

All pups worth their salt have their "if I feel like it" moments. That doesn't mean you have to allow or even cultivate it!

 Quote: robbinmann

dang those little teeth hurt

Robbin, take it from another first-time owner of a working line GSD who's learning the hard way: the teeth will still hurt when they're not so little. I really started getting scars on my hands when I started the Flinks drive-building with a ball on a string. Got so bad I emailed Ed, who told me no, the pup wasn't just "missing the string by accident", he didn't respect me enough as the owner of the ball. So I stepped up my leadership intensity and sure enough, we went many months without breaking out the band aids. Until today, when I just wasn't fast enough and got nailed again. Two band aids this time. Back to pack leader basics for me.

Listen to Jennifer!

Hey Anita,
now that way would work, if you're not throwing the ball far at all (like you said, just more or less sitting with him and tossing it on the ground)than the 2 ball can work for that because the pup is in actuality right there.
I was more pointing out that she said the pup won't return with the ball. In that case the 2 ball won't work because he'll just run back for the second ball without the first one.
Good idea from you though, about sitting close with the pup and just tossing the ball on the ground. That way the pup doesn't really have a chance to take off with the toy and you can tempt him to drop it with the second one.