I am feeling a little overwhelmed, but my animals are family members. I don't want to feed them crap. I got the Science Diet because I thought that was supposed to be good for them. What's a veteranarian good for if not for telling you how to keep your animals healthy? I'm starting to get mad at my vet now and really he is the best in the area. I took my animals to four different vets before I found one that I really liked. I'm starting to think that maybe I should look into changing all my animals diets. I have two cats as well. They've been eating Science Diet too. I imagine if it's not good for the dogs then it probably isn't good for the cats either.

Thanks for the warning.

Don't get mad at your vet, at least not yet! As Connie said, he probably didn't get much nutrition education in vet school, so could quite possibly be giving you what he (naively) believes is good advice. If he's a good vet in other respects, it's probably worth trying to work with him, unless he's so intractable he refuses to treat your animals if you insist on feeding them differently than he suggests.

Also, the difference in smell between your two dogs - maybe it's partly related to coat length? You said your other, non-stinky dog has short hair. I'm speculating that's less likely to trap and accumulate dirt, oil, bacteria, dead skin cells, etc that cause odor. The short coat also allows more air circulation. Just my speculation - in addition to Connie's point that dogs are different, so some do better (or less badly) on cheap food than others.

Oh, and I also feed one of my cats a completely raw diet, with no problems. My other cat would only eat dry food until I switched him to a dry raw, grain-free food. Now, oddly enough, he will eat goodies (raw liver, raw beef heart, raw gizzards, raw chicken neck) along with it that he wouldn't touch when I tried to put them with regular dry cat food. Send me a Private Message if you'd like some pointers on raw cat feeding.

 Quote: AnitaGard

Don't get mad at your vet, at least not yet! As Connie said, he probably didn't get much nutrition education in vet school, so could quite possibly be giving you what he (naively) believes is good advice. If he's a good vet in other respects, it's probably worth trying to work with him, unless he's so intractable he refuses to treat your animals if you insist on feeding them differently than he suggests....

Exactly.

If he is feeding it to his dogs, then you know his nutrition education was supplied by commercial dog food biggies.

The ingredients list is the place to look -- not the glossy ads. That's where the facts are.

My close friend is a third year vet school and the Iams/Science Diet/Purina people give the vet students a free 50lb bag of their food every month to motivate them into selling it.

As previously mentioned by other posters, and put simply: the reason why a lot of vets don't know about the benefits of a raw diet (or better kibbles) is because the big name commercial junk kibble companies fund all of the research! So the evidence is skewed and these "tests" are run with a specific goal in mind: Proving that Science Diet (for example) is good for your dogs. These are not objective food trials.

To be fair, this may be changing. At Tuft's Vet school, they have been recently been having representatives from better kibble companies coming to speak to the students. Innova was recently there and has, according to my friend, convinced a lot of people that there are some better kibble than the dog food moguls want you to believe.

If only we could get raw diet supporters to speak to students. Problem is, without controlled lab studies, most vets or vet students will not trust the research. That's just how they've been conditioned. And who here, feeding raw, has the money to do that?

Also, while I do agree that RAW diet is better, do some research on it before you jump into it. Done incorrectly it can have really bad effects on your dogs.

That's another reason why vets will sometimes speak against it. My vet just today said that he just saw a case of a severly malnurished dog that was the result of a well-meaning owner feeding him nothing but raw hamburger because she heard that RAW was better.

There are better experts here on this site (and Ed's website) for a RAW diet than you can find anywhere, IMO.

In the meantime...get off Science Diet!! I really believe you'll see results.

Oh and one other thing: Do not feed the amounts listed on the bag! They want you to feed more so you have to buy more. Let your dog's physical condition and energy be your guide.

That is a shame about Vets. I have a cousin who just graduated from high school and she has her heart set on going to vet school. I should let her know about this! She'd probably enjoy this website.

http://www.canidae.com/index.html

Above is the website to a dog food I was thinking of trying. Does anyone know much about the brand Canidae? I am trying different things with my dogs to see what they like and what makes Garm smell better. Canidae seemed good because it has natural ingredients and it uses human grade meat. If anyone has suggestions on other good kibbles that I can find in my area (I live in Modesto, California) I would love to hear about it. Ordering food from far away has proven difficult because shipping and handling is expensive. My two big dogs can eat a lot in a month and I don't have a lot of storage space either. I really need to be able to get it at a store that I can drive to.

I have decided against the all raw diet because there is so much controversy over it and I can't decide who is right. I am giving the dogs human food (some of it raw) to go with their kibble. After I read what everyone had to say about Science Diet I went and got a book called, "Food Pets Die For" by Ann N. Martin, that explains a lot about the ingredients in a lot of pet foods and I was really disgusted. It also gave me a lot of different healthy recipees of human food that is safe and tastey for my dogs and cats. Garm especially likes the variety in his food now and he is eating much better. I think if I use a combination of these recipees and a good kibble all my pets will be much happier.

Oh, and by the way, I took some of the bath suggestions people posted. The shower didn't work- maybe because it's in the same location as the tub. I also tried spraying Garm off outside with a hose and it worked pretty well. He still didn't like it and he coward down and wined the whole time, but he did not react violently. The new picture in my signiture shows how fluffy Garm gets right after a bath.

Here's a list of better kibbles:
http://www.leerburg.com/all-natural%20kibble.htm

(Canidae is on the list.)

You are in the right place if you decide to change to fresh (raw) food.

I find that the nay-sayers are generally either (1) financially connected to the pet food industry, or (2) getting information from someone who is.

But better kibble is definitely a step in the right direction.

And then you might want to read one of the books here:
http://www.leerburg.com/feedingdogs.htm
about feeding fresh raw food.... especially in view of the fact that you are already feeding some raw.

My last shepherd didn't like the tub at all. I think it was too slippery and she felt like she would fall down.

The hose worked great on her. She was a total water dog to begin with, so it was easy to turn a game of play with the hose into a bath. Spray her until she was soaked. Soap her up with the shampoo (I avoided her neck and head until the very last). Spray her off and let her run around.

After a while I could get her to lie down on the grass and let me wash her all at once. The there was lots of play time when I rinsed her off.

I use Canidae for Starbuck (All Life Cycle). She likes the food and even if your local shop does not carry it, you can order it online from petfooddirect.

I completely agree on the food. A raw fed dog doesn't have that doggie odor or the wet dog smell.

Brush your dog daily to get all the stuff out of the coat.

Train your dog to like a muzzle. Get a good basket muzzle and show it to your dog. Then drop a bit of hot dog in the bottom and let the dog eat it (the hot dog, not the muzzle ) Don't try to strap it on until the dog see the muzzle and shoves him nose in it. Then only leave it on for a fraction of a second.

Train your dog to jump in the bath tub on cue. Toss some treats in there. I have my bath-hater jump in the bathtub everytime I go in the bathroom.

Sometimes muzzle your dog before having him jump in the tub.

Put a towel down in the tub (for traction) and fill a bucket of water. Pour the water over your dog while feeding some fabulous treat through the muzzle. Bath over.

Maybe the next month, do another "bath." If he's OK you might get to the shampoo part. Dilute your shampoo so it's very watery and put it in a squeeze bottle. It will get into the coat faster and rinse much faster. The faster you can do it, the better.

Juliana,
I can vouch for the Canidae kibble - we switched our pup Nickie over to it a few months ago and could not be happier with the results. He had been on Iams Large Breed Puppy Chow and was having intermittent problems with vomiting and diarrhea. Also since we got him at 8 weeks old, he had an odor to his fur.

Since switching over to the Canidae, he has not had one single problem! Also as Anne mentioned, on the better kibble such as Canidae there is not that "doggy" odor. His coat is so shiny and he is really doing very well on it (as you can see in his pictures in the link below.