Thanks, VanCamp...you're the best <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> It's from a book and if quoting from a book is a problem, go ahead and delete it. I just don't want these people to think I'm making it up. It doesn't say exactly what I thought it did, but it's enough to make me not want to take the chance.

The following is an excerpt from the book entitled THE NATURE OF ANIMAL HEALING by Martin Goldstein, D.V.M., page 92.

"Unfortunately, intranasal vaccines may also lead to other, more serious problems, including, in my experience, nasal cancer. One sad case was Wilhelm the Great, a wire-haired Jack Russell, who by the time I saw him had suffered for years with chronic sinusitis - an on-going runny nose, in effect. A look at his medical history confirmed that the sinusitis had flared up right after the first intranasal vaccine he'd been given for bordetella bronchiseptica. Bordetella is a mild condition, hardly life-endangering, and easily addressed by isolating the afflicted puppy from other dogs and putting him on a good diet with supplements and homeopathic remedies. The vaccine, moreover, is often useless. But every puppy who gets the intranasal bordetella vaccine has to absorb the shock to its immune system of those disease antigens (sometimes at as young as two weeks old, if the puppy was born in an area where bordetella is prevalent). Often that shock produces sinusitis. Occasionally, as the sinusitis worsens and is medically treated, nasal cancer appears, especially when a patient's medical history includes frequent administration of combo vaccines. That was Wilhelm the Great's latest plight."

That looks like one case where he suspects it came from the vaccine as the sinusitis appeared after the dose, and then later the dog had cancer? Is there literature showing links between sinusitis and nasal cancer? I have a senior with sinus problems.

If you read it, it doesn't say Bordatella Vax cause nasal cancer.
It does say Bordetella vax can cause sinusitis, and "Occasionally, as the sinusitis worsens and is medically treated, nasal cancer appears."

Hmm, it could be saying that medical treatment causes the nasal cancer. From one case, with no direct cause and effect, it's a big leap.

Anna

Originally posted by Laureen:
That looks like one case where he suspects it came from the vaccine as the sinusitis appeared after the dose, and then later the dog had cancer? Is there literature showing links between sinusitis and nasal cancer? I have a senior with sinus problems.

That's how I read it as well Anna.

Someone asked for information, so I passed along what I've read and what I've been told. You can take it or leave it. It makes no difference to me either way, so vaccinate away! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If you read the paragraph I posted, it doesn't say that there is only one case, he simply listed one case as an example. As for me, I would rather be safe than sorry. It only makes sense that if there is evidence of the injectible form of Bordatella causing injection site tumors, that there is also a good chance that it can cause nasal cancer, or a condition to predispose a dog to nasal cancer.

What you guys choose to do certainly isn't going to affect me or my dogs. I only want people to be informed that there is a possibility of it being related to cancer. That way, if it becomes an issue somewhere down the line, at least you'll already be aware that this may be a possibility.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Happy vaccinating! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If your dogs have problems with vaccinating Bordatella in the nose then put it in the eye. We (the clinic I worked for) used to do that to dogs who were more comfortable with drops in the eye than the nasal. This way they didn't "snot" half of it out as well..

I don't think anyone wants to "vaccinate away" - people were just asking for clarification for your original post that: "the nasal vaccine has been known to cause cancer of the nasal passages". I don't board my dogs so I would not get this vaccine.

One of the big problems in evaluating any litarature is seperating well researched data from "just a Guess". In many cases there are conclusions that are based on "experience" not actual data. In order for research to be valuable the cause and effect must be established, at a significant level. If there is no method to establish an actual causal relationship, then it is just a guess and not real research.

Everything has risk. It can't be avoided. As a result it is up to everybody to make an evaluation of the level of risk involved in the situation. If the disease is a bigger problem than the risk of vaccination, it is a better risk. This is part of the reason that in medcine treatment, or prevention, must be at an adequate level to be effective but not used without significant reason. After years of reading medical literature I have learned to read past the conclusions to actual recorded data to make a descion. That would include control data that is used for comparision. Without that information it is impossible to make an adequate decision.

I have read more studies that are based on wild leaps of faith, rather than a well thought out evaluation of the data, that any comments I see need to be evaluated in conjunction with the data. Most reseachers have established a conclusion before they start collecting data, and occasionally that bias comes through in the evaluation of the data. This is partially a result of the required "scientific method". After conducting several years of study it is often difficult to accept that all of your work is in vain.

Nice post Richard,
In addition to the feelings of all your work being in vain, a major motivator of "data massaging" to draw an effect of a treatment in research has been the reluctance of Journals to publish well designed studies that conclude a "no effect". This has started to change, but still has a long way to go (personal opinion).

Thanks for the replies. I went ahead and had the injection Bordatella. Screw it, I was under a time crunch. next year will be a different story.

On a related, but slightly diff. topic, does anyone else have vet's in their area that just have a blank look when you start talking about titers, and why you want them. It is so friggin aggravating. If I hear from one more damn vet, "Welllll, I probably could do it, but it would be expensive. It would be much easier to just vaccinate" What a crock of BS. What part of, "I'm concerned about my pet's long term health, vis-a'-vis cancer, and cost is not a consideration" don't they understand??