Or the movie "The Edge" with Anthony Hopkins (and Bart the grizzly). "The Ghost and The Darkness" was based on a true story. Ghost was the name of one of the lions, Darkness the other.

All I know about bear attacks is that you cannot outrun a bear if he decides to chase you. There is bear spray, but don't know how well it would work, if at all.

Ali, you were fortunate...that bear knew you were coming long before you heard him growl. Their sense of smell is phenomenal, besides hearing you long before you heard him. Bears are completely unpredictable, some will warn like yours did, some will move away, some will charge. There's just no telling. A dog is a diversion but certainly not much of a threat to them.

 Quote: sandy moore

Or the movie "The Edge" with Anthony Hopkins (and Bart the grizzly).

That movie gave me nightmares......

Yeah, Carol, that was pretty bad...

 Quote: sandy moore

Or the movie "The Edge" with Anthony Hopkins (and Bart the grizzly). "The Ghost and The Darkness" was based on a true story. Ghost was the name of one of the lions, Darkness the other.

All I know about bear attacks is that you cannot outrun a bear if he decides to chase you. There is bear spray, but don't know how well it would work, if at all.

Ali, you were fortunate...that bear knew you were coming long before you heard him growl. Their sense of smell is phenomenal, besides hearing you long before you heard him. Bears are completely unpredictable, some will warn like yours did, some will move away, some will charge. There's just no telling. A dog is a diversion but certainly not much of a threat to them.

I have a feeling the dog wouldn't provide much protection even if he could just because he has no training in that aspect yet. I hear black bears are easier to scare off because they're generally all bluff, but I'm not sure what kind of bears are in Payson. You live in Arizona, do you have any idea what bears inhabit Payson mountains?

- Ali

Dogs are not meant to provide protection but rather diversion. The dog jumping and barking and running around the bear will provide a window of time for the people to escape and find safety.

dogs and bears are a very bad combination. the usual scenario is that the dog tangles with the bear and runs back to you, with the bear chasing him right to you. people have died because of this.

as a general rule of thumb, don't hike with a dog in bear country unless your dog sticks to you like velcro and has a low prey drive.

(former wilderness ranger speaking here.)

bear spray does usually work, but you can't count on the wind being right or the bear being close enough to give it a strong enough shot. (aim for their open mouth or their eyes). you almost certainly will be incapacitated by the spray yourself. it hangs in the air a long time, and you'll end up moving right into it.

if you do have a low prey drive dog (meaning they won't be running off to investigate sounds and smells), and he stays close to you, then a dog can be a deterrent. bears do not like dogs and will tend to stay away if they smell them.

 Quote: alex madsen

I have a feeling the dog wouldn't provide much protection even if he could just because he has no training in that aspect yet. I hear black bears are easier to scare off because they're generally all bluff, but I'm not sure what kind of bears are in Payson. You live in Arizona, do you have any idea what bears inhabit Payson mountains?

Payson is in the Tonto Natl Forest. I worked for the Tonto for a while. The black bear is the bear you'll find there, and they're listed as "fairly common". Here's the Tonto's website and you can click on Natural Resources on the left-hand side for lists of the species found there: http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/tonto/home.shtml

The Tonto is huge, so the black bear could be anywhere, not just near Payson, although I doubt you'll find them in the lower desert areas, but I never count on anything when it comes to where a bear will go and where they won't. Also there's not "supposed" to be any grizzlies.

The reason I said you were fortunate is cause the bear you encountered was probably eating something real special to him, and although he knew you all were coming, he wasn't about to leave it. Had you ventured closer, there may have been a problem.

A bear's sense of smell is much better than a dog's. So he knew you were there long before he issued you the warning. Here's a link you might be interested in: http://www.americanbear.org/senses.htm

Having said all that, the human criminal element is more common than bear incidents in the Tonto and something you should be aware of also, I hate to say.

What do you mean just as far as being robbed or attacked or what?


- Ali

 Quote: Alex Madsen

What do you mean just as far as being robbed or attacked or what?


- Ali

Both, including theft of cars/tires/whatever. Here's a link regarding crime in AZ published in 2005. I'm sure the numbers are higher now.
http://azcjc.gov/news/fullstory/July2005/AZCrimeRates.asp
Some of this transfers over into the Tonto...example: people go boating or hiking, come back to find their car stolen. If I wanted to hike a trail, I wouldn't without a gun. The campgrounds are safer and I wouldn't feel as vulnerable there as going off by myself along some trail. I would just make sure there are a lot of people around, and my dog.

It's sad to say what I've said about one of our national forests, and no one is bothered more about it than I am. To me it's a sign of things to come.