I agree, with me I like to wait until 2 if I want to neuter. I don't know why the breeder wants you to neuter at a certain time since you have a limited registration anyways. Who cares if you even neuter , you cant register his litter and I assume you don't plan on breeding due to your agreement. Well that is why sometimes you have to really think about the agreement you are signing in for..

Keleah, does your written contract with the breeder actually specify that you must neuter your dog? So the breeder will not send you the AKC registration form, even for a limited registration, unless you neuter your dog?

That's a bit severe if it's the case. I couldn't go with a breeder that demands I neuter or spay the dog. That's over the top IMO.

http://www.leerburg.com/neuter.htm



Edited by Sandy Moore (03/30/2007 07:52 AM)
Edit reason: to add Ed's article link

Unless there's something in your contract that forbids it, and unless things have changed in the last 10 years, you don't need a form from the breeder to get an ILP number. You don't even need to know who bred the dog, in what country it was born, or what its pedigree is. You just have to send a photo and explain why you think the dog is the breed you claim it is. My last GSD was a shelter dog, no info, no papers, no nothing. But she was unmistakably GSD -- a classic sturdy, straight-backed, properly-angulated, athletic working type with a gorgeous, regal head. Come to think of it, maybe the AKC conformation people did have a hard time recognizing her as a GSD

There are other (and better) agility options out there besides AKC. USDAA and NADAC are other venues to compete in. Any dog over 18 months can compete - purebred or mutt, intact or neutered (the only excepting is a bitch in heat cannot compete). You can also do UKC instead of AKC for obedience

I am 100% in support of controlling the pet population. However, I now disagree with neutering early because I have two dogs who are miserable in part because of being neutered early. First, I was given a beagle who the previous owners got from the Humane Society where she was spayed at six weeks. She has constant UTIs and vaginal infections. After months of antibiotics, the vet concluded she needs a surgery, vulvoplasty, because she has a recessed ("infantile") vulva, which is strongly associated with obesity and early spaying. She's not fat. Either she's on antibiotics, or she's miserable. The surgery is expensive. So are the antibiotics.

Then my tenants left behind a big mongrel puppy, and the vet immediately neutered him. I didn't do my research. Now he's 2 and has knee, hip and back problems. Of course I walk him a lot and keep him thin, which for him is 90 pounds. He's been referred to an orthopedic surgeon vet who nonchalantly said, "A big dog with bad genes and an early neuter and this is what we often see." The vet didn't ask if he was neutered early--he guessed from his build. Here's a Wall Street Journal article that says vets are mystified by the recent increase in canine knee failure. Did anybody see if it's related to the recent trend toward neutering dogs before they adequately develop bone and muscle mass?

http://webreprints.djreprints.com/1451420232928.html

In fact, it IS related, and mentioned in this well-documented article about the potential dangers of early neutering:

http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html

I'm a trained researcher in an unrelated field. I started reading the studies that say early neutering is fine, and they're surprisingly flawed. For example, one concluded that dogs' growth is not stunted by early neutering. Right. As one poster here mentioned, neutered dogs grow bigger, with unbalanced skeletal growth, and that is why the orthopedic problems occur. Further, large dogs are the ones with the most problems from early neutering (not just orthopedic, but also bone cancer, hypothyroidism, etc.), but the dogs in the studies weren't large. The dogs in another study were only followed for two years, but I suspect many problems are likely to show up later (my dog is the exception, I suppose). In one study, neuter age was defined as early (< 24 weeks) or late (> 24 weeks). That's weeks, not months. That study concluded there was no increase in long-term health problems comparing the early to the late group. The problem is the average age of neutering for the dogs in each group was hardly different. The study should have compared early (< 24 weeks) to late (> 48 weeks or something). These studies, published in top journals, are so biased, I almost believe there's a political agenda for early neutering.

What's the downside of giving the dog a little time to mature? Accidental litters? A dog doesn't need neutered at 6 weeks to prevent unwanted litters, but that's what the shelters are doing now. Bad behavior? I babysit an intact adult dog, and despite all I had heard about marking and so forth, he's perfectly normal. In the future I'll try to avoid getting a dog that was neutered early because I don't want the potential suffering of an innocent dog or the vet expense.

I have put my pup's neutering "on hold" for now due to research such as this. He is a bullmastiff/pitbull mix - 7 months old. Just yesterday I received another card in the mail from our vet saying that Nickie was overdue for his neutering (they wanted to do the procedure between 4 and 6 months old). At this point, I think the best course of action is to wait - sure don't want to cause any of the problems mentioned! When I showed my vet the article from Chris Zink (the second link in Lorna Hardin's posting which I had also found a couple of months ago), he glanced at it and said, "well everyone has their own opinion about the subject."

I wouldn't neuter at all, I don't see the point of it. Neutering is for people who can't keep their dog under control and let them run off around the neighborhood. It's not like a bitch that bleeds all over the place, there is no adverse effect to you as an owner to not neutering. If someone wants to insist on it, I would suggest no earlier than 3 years old. 2 is still too young to me. I don't believe in spaying bitches either, its a little bit of a pain twice a year with doggy diapers, but the same goes for a female, no earlier than 3 years old. Dogs spayed and neutered too early always appear immature to me, almost puppy-like in the way they handle things.

I'm with Diane. No plans to neuter and will only do it if medically necessary. I can already see the difference between my 9 month old intact Lab and neutered Labs of the same age and it is striking.

For the time and mental turmoil I've spent thinking about neutering my dog (9 mos old now), even waiting until he was 2 yrs old, I no longer want to neuter him. I kept trying to weigh the pros and cons and for the life of me, I can't see any pros to neutering. At least not any that are absolutes, just "COULD get this ailment or that ailment". I don't want to do that drastic procedure to him, period. Barring a medical condition that requires neutering to save his life, if there is such a thing.

I guess one of the reasons we have been almost brain-washed into thinking neutering is not such a big deal is cause it's done as inconsequentially as a toe nail clipping and lauded by vets for decades.

I'm with Mike Schoonbrood - he makes perfect sense. Thank you Mike, and forum members, for having the guts to go against the grain.

We've decided to keep Otto intact and use him for hunting. Found out that the reputable breeder we got him from is now breeding golden retrievers with poodles and labradors with poodles(they started out breeding Black, yellow and chocolate labs and golden retrievers-not mixing these breeds-and now they are getting on the goldendoodle and labradoodle bandwagon(saw this after we'd had him for a month). Also, we didn't sign a contract with them, so we really didn't get a guarantee (stupid)*shrugs*. The only thing would be no papers(oh well) and no health guarantee till he's 3yr old(I take good care of my dogs and really watch their health, so not a big deal either). Thanks for everyone's input and help-makes things easier knowing people who care about dogs as much as I do!