> Mr Kirschental

Correction, from the email, Mr Kirschental was actually referred to as Karl Fueller.

ED's COMMENTS EDITED IN:

Joseph Xavier s a complete NUT CASE - I mean a mental case. He lives at 471 WASHINTON AVE
COLORADO CITY AZ 86021

Phone 206-978-4385

He claimed to live in Canada and is in fact living in a strict mormon community that practises poligamy. On a scale of 1 to 10 he is in the 10 range for crazy people who have contacted us over the years

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This guy is completly nute - he is a mental case

Joseph,

This is in response to this post, and especially, the other one you linked to:

First of all, you're not going to get a dog that will stand it's ground or especially, charge, a bear or mountain lion just by picking a breed. Even in aggressive-type breeds, there will be a variation with temperament.

But did you see what happened to the dog that did have the "courage" to attack a polar bear in that (HORRIBLE) video you posted? The dog didn't exactly win, you know. The dog was flopped around like a fish. And that was with MANY dogs around. People shooting at the bear was what actually scared it off, not the dogs. To the bear: dog = mosquito.

If you're really concerned about bears or mountain lions then the best you can hope for is a dog that will distract the bear by hopping outside of its reach so you have time to hightail it, or shoot the bear. If the dog attacks the bear, you could have a dead dog in about three seconds, and frankly, that's not buying you much time.

You said your wife won't allow shooting the bear...get rubber bullets or tranquilizer guns. A dog isn't going to do it.

A single dog is not the answer to your bear/mountain lion problem unless you want the dog to die. A dog can alert you to the presence of the animal. He can bark and run, trying to draw the animal away from you...but attacking one of these incredibly strong animals will only get you a very short and graphic video on Youtube. Nothing else.

I don't mean to sound nasty, Joseph, but please reconsider the whole animal-charging angle. From what I understand, it's hard enough to find a PPD that will actually attack a human in a real-life confrontation, let alone a huge angry animal.

I am not sure standing up to a mountain lion or bear is what I would define as courageous.

I agree 100% with Amber on this one!

From wikipedia~The precise view of what constitutes courage not only varies among cultures, but among individuals. For instance, some define courage as lacking fear in a situation that would normally generate it. Others, in contrast, hold that courage requires one to have fear and then overcome it.

There are also more subtle distinctions in the definition of courage. For example, some distinguish between courage and foolhardiness in that a courageous person OR DOG overcomes a justifiable fear for an even more noble purpose. If the fear is not justifiable or if the purpose is not noble, then the courage is either false or foolhardy.

I'll put it to you another way...

If I was seling a GSD or Malinois to a customer and found out they wanted the dog to stand up to a bear or mountain line as part of his "job description" I would absolutely refuse to sell the dog to that customer!

You say you want a dog for SAR? I understand that encountering dangerous wildlife is part of the job, BUT that's where the handler comes in. You can't and shouldn't expecpt the dog to do this alone. Where does your responsibility lie in this whole equation?

Those videos tick me off, btw.

Joseph, first I'd like to welcome you to the forum.

Secondly, I don't want to sound nasty intentionally but feel I have to address this issue the way I feel about it. You posted the other thread http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/136682/page/1#Post136682 at 6:18PM yesterday, and then after that you posted this one at 9:30PM yesterday without waiting for the answers. In the earlier thread both Sefi Sahar and Carol Boche gave you extremely reasonable and excellent answers and reasons why you wouldn't want to send a dog toward a bear during a rescue or any other time. But you're still looking for a different answer, almost seeming to ignore what experts are saying about this issue. I'm sorry but you HAVE to consider the poor dog!!! You wrote that your wife doesn't want you to carry a gun because she doesn't want to shoot a bear, but she would rather have her dog killed by one? I really don't understand that thinking. If the bear is a threat to a human and coming toward you, shoot it. Don't send a dog that would probably go because of his loyalty to you and protectiveness of you, to his horrid death. Shoot the dang bear or cat. If YOU won't go face the danger, don't send the dog.

I wouldn't recommend any dog for a death such as that.

I have to agree with the others on this one.

But I'd also like to note that a lot of those "courageous" breeds often have a reputation that implies they do a lot more than they really do.

Take the Rhodesian ridgebacks, for example. My breeder gets several inquiries per month about "the dog that can kill lions"...but ridgebacks were never used to actually ATTACK the lion, they were used to trail them - the hunter did the killing.

Just get the dog that does the job and suits your lifestyle, even the bravest dog in the world is just going to get killed if they go chasing for trouble with animals twice their size.

I agree with Amber, Cindy, Sandy, and Heather.

I could not see the videos because I don't have the right software, but sending your carefully trained investment into a death-trap doesn't sound very smart.

The dog you seem to want isn't only a dog with enough courage to "take on" (what do you mean by this? attack?) a full grown male bear, would also have to be stupid enough to do so.

What kind of trainer would invest time and money into a carefully selected, carefully trained dog, only to send it off to attack an animal that will certainly kill it?

Those videos are not what I care to watch.Those type of video are the type I like to avoid .For a pit bull to come out of the blew in the ring of a bull fight is pathetic, let's face it somebody released that dog on purpose and they love it.As sick as it is that entertains ..It happens all over South America and Mexico all the time....So don't think that dog out of no where came to help the guy that (deservedly so) was being thrashed around.
No courage there simply a dog that had been released in the past on a Bull before that was(the Bull) probably old or very young.
A pit against a healthy Bull has no chance..

> If the dog attacks the bear, you could
> have a dead dog in about three seconds

Of course I don't want the dog to attack the bear!!! It will be ripped apart.

I could never kill a bear or a mountain lion. After all, I am the one who is intruding on its environment and my property is on what has been bear/lion territory for probably thousands of years. My wife feels the same way. Guns are out as we cannot shoot an innocent animal.

Do you really think we will send our beloved pooch to its death if we are unwilling to shoot an attacking bear??

I just want a dog that will do what the Karelian bear dogs do for the Karelian Bear Shepherding Institute of Canada or the Wind River Bear Inst.

The Karelian dogs (usually) work alone because otherwise they get into a fight with other dogs. The dog just chases the bear away as you can see from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1brtIZkPUt8


ED's COMMENTS EDITED IN:

Joseph Xavier s a complete NUT CASE - I mean a mental case. He lives at 471 WASHINTON AVE
COLORADO CITY AZ 86021

Phone 206-978-4385

He claimed to live in Canada and is in fact living in a strict mormon community that practises poligamy. On a scale of 1 to 10 he is in the 10 range for crazy people who have contacted us over the years

---

This guy is completly nute - he is a mental case

 Quote: Joseph Xavier

>



I just want a dog that will do what the Karelian bear dogs do for the Karelian Bear Shepherding Institute of Canada or the Wind River Bear Inst.

The Karelian dogs (usually) work alone because otherwise they get into a fight with other dogs. The dog just chases the bear away as you can see from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1brtIZkPUt8

You answered your own questions then....

Get a Karelian Bear Dog!

Joseph...

You have posted on your other thread that you want a SINGLE dog to:

1.) SAR

2.) Schutzhund

3.) Chase bears and mountain lions.


While certain dogs may lead you to believe otherwise, NO dog is bionic. You're asking for too much.