Connie Sutherland wrote 04/14/2007 12:03 PM Re: Dogs being finicky or bad food? [Re: Sarah Morris ] #138130 - 04/14/2007 12:03 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: sarah_morris Necks don't seem very meaty so if your dogs are getting enough meat at their other meal then I would think the bony necks are OK. The meat/bone ratio thing causes me a lot of anxiety. http://www.leerburg.com/diet2.htm Scroll down to the 65-pound adult female suggestions. Whether you need to increase or decrease the total (if your adult dog weighs more or less), these meals, over a couple of days, are great suggestions for using necks and backs and "fleshing" (haha) them out. IMO, you could easily follow this diet exactly and fully meet all dietary requirements.... yet it's simple and uses very inexpensive ingredients. Once you follow this and have the basic idea of how much meat to bone makes up a good prey ratio, then it will be easier to eyeball other meats for variety. And if you have more whole birds or quarters, then look at the 90-pound male suggestions.
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Sarah Morris wrote 04/14/2007 12:45 PM Re: Dogs being finicky or bad food? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #138135 - 04/14/2007 12:45 PM
Sarah Morris Webboard User Reg: 08-29-2006 Posts: 2324 Loc: Central Coast, California Offline	I've been trying to use the LB diet as a guideline but I'm running into the problem that unless the meat is bone-in poultry my dog is very reluctant to eat it. The LB diet is balanced because it's not only chicken, right? Mixing green tripe into the morning meat-only feeding sometimes works, as does mixing in Carol's veggie glop, but usually I end up picking up the morning meal untouched and offering it again for dinner, when it again goes untouched. When he's refusing the morning meal I'm not giving him the chicken at night because I'm afraid he'll then be getting too much bone and not enough meat. I have put down chicken quarters and a half chicken...no problems there. But then there is the variety issue to contend with. Can a dog thrive on chicken, green tripe, and veggie glop? Of all the problems I thought I might have switching to raw I never anticipated my dog would be so difficult to feed. It's really frustrating. True
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Connie Sutherland wrote 04/14/2007 01:00 PM Re: Dogs being finicky or bad food? [Re: Sarah Morris ] #138137 - 04/14/2007 01:00 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Sarah_Morris I've been trying to use the LB diet as a guideline but I'm running into the problem that unless the meat is bone-in poultry my dog is very reluctant to eat it. The LB diet is balanced because it's not only chicken, right? Mixing green tripe into the morning meat-only feeding sometimes works, as does mixing in Carol's veggie glop, but usually I end up picking up the morning meal untouched and offering it again for dinner, when it again goes untouched. When he's refusing the morning meal I'm not giving him the chicken at night because I'm afraid he'll then be getting too much bone and not enough meat. I have put down chicken quarters and a half chicken...no problems there. But then there is the variety issue to contend with. Can a dog thrive on chicken, green tripe, and veggie glop? Of all the problems I thought I might have switching to raw I never anticipated my dog would be so difficult to feed. It's really frustrating. Chicken quarters, green tripe, and veggie glop...... organs in there somewhere? If so, then my answer is yes. Do you throw in the occasional sardines or something, and maybe an egg? I think you're saying that the dog likes bone-in and won't eat plain muscle meat? I wouldn't see that as a problem with quarters and halves at all. If I were mainly giving, say, necks, I'd want to add some muscle meat, but that's not what you're saying, right? You're saying that you're concerned about no beef or other protein source? I think I'd consider the green tripe to be a different source (it's cow), and not worry. But on the whole, I think I'd guess the dog wasn't hungry enough. I could be wrong, because I do have the experience that my pig-dogs won't eat raw liver even if it's all there is for a whole day, but in general I think most dogs will eat fresh meat once they're used to it if they're hungry enough. I'd probably offer that meal they turn up their snoots at after a half-day of NO food. :>
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Cathi Kemp wrote 04/14/2007 07:37 PM Re: Dogs being finicky or bad food? [Re: Sarah Morris ] #138183 - 04/14/2007 07:37 PM
Cathi Kemp Webboard User Reg: 01-21-2007 Posts: 265 Loc: Los Angeles, CA Offline	Oops, when I typed the message below I didn't realize there was a second page so I was replying to Sarah's message about necks not being very meaty. I do the 50% RMBs, 20% muscle, 10% organ and 20% veggie diet. To my knowledge the bone to meat ratio is anywhere from 1:1 to 2:1 calcium:phosphorus (bone/eggshell:meat) (http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm#ratio). So I think I'm o.k. Actually I've never closely evaluated the ratio on the necks but if I had to guess I would say it's about 1:1. Anyone else have input? Their poop seems o.k., sometimes it's the color of coffee with alot of cream which I think indicates maybe a bit too much bone but other times it is medium-dark brown which I think indicates what it should be (sorry if that's TMI for some of you). Is this right? http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w49/catkemp9/
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Sarah Morris wrote 04/15/2007 12:42 AM Re: Dogs being finicky or bad food? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #138212 - 04/15/2007 12:42 AM
Sarah Morris Webboard User Reg: 08-29-2006 Posts: 2324 Loc: Central Coast, California Offline	Quote: Chicken quarters, green tripe, and veggie glop...... organs in there somewhere? If so, then my answer is yes. Do you throw in the occasional sardines or something, and maybe an egg? There are eggs, fish, and organs in the glop. Following Carol's recipe I made a month's worth of glop and put a good amount of all 3 in it.  Quote: I think you're saying that the dog likes bone-in and won't eat plain muscle meat? I wouldn't see that as a problem with quarters and halves at all. If I were mainly giving, say, necks, I'd want to add some muscle meat, but that's not what you're saying, right? You're saying that you're concerned about no beef or other protein source? That's right, it has been my concern but...  Quote: I think I'd consider the green tripe to be a different source (it's cow), and not worry. you have just eased my mind considerably. Thank you  Quote: But on the whole, I think I'd guess the dog wasn't hungry enough. I could be wrong, because I do have the experience that my pig-dogs won't eat raw liver even if it's all there is for a whole day, but in general I think most dogs will eat fresh meat once they're used to it if they're hungry enough. I'd probably offer that meal they turn up their snoots at after a half-day of NO food. :> This is what I've been doing and he will eventually eat whatever I give him...only sometimes it's a day or so later. I guess I'll have to learn a little patience with this goof ball. Thanks again for your help, Connie. True
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Sarah Morris wrote 04/15/2007 12:55 AM Re: Dogs being finicky or bad food? [Re: Cathi Kemp ] #138213 - 04/15/2007 12:55 AM
Sarah Morris Webboard User Reg: 08-29-2006 Posts: 2324 Loc: Central Coast, California Offline	Quote: Their poop seems o.k., sometimes it's the color of coffee with alot of cream which I think indicates maybe a bit too much bone but other times it is medium-dark brown which I think indicates what it should be (sorry if that's TMI for some of you). Is this right? Cathi, on this board poop, in all its various shades and consistancies, is a HOT topic. You'll never find another place where people will take such an interest in what comes out of your dog's behind According to Yuko, brown is good. Yellow, powdery poop means too much bone. There is no mistaking it when it happens...it is truly yellow. True
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Cathi Kemp wrote 04/15/2007 09:55 AM Re: Dogs being finicky or bad food? [Re: Sarah Morris ] #138224 - 04/15/2007 09:55 AM
Cathi Kemp Webboard User Reg: 01-21-2007 Posts: 265 Loc: Los Angeles, CA Offline	Quote: Connie Sutherland Chicken quarters, green tripe, and veggie glop...... organs in there somewhere? I’m a bit confused again but this time it’s about green tripe. In one of my posts back in January I was getting clarification on whether gizzards were organ or muscle (per Cindy Easton Rhodes, gizzards are muscle). In that post I snuck in a question about green tripe but I don’t think anyone saw it so I never got the response from this forum. It was after that when I found what I thought was the correct answer in Carina Beth MacDonald’s book “Raw Dog Food”. She categorizes green tripe as organ. (I never understood that). In what category does green tripe fall - veggies, organs or both? http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w49/catkemp9/
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Connie Sutherland wrote 04/15/2007 11:10 AM Re: Dogs being finicky or bad food? [Re: Cathi Kemp ] #138232 - 04/15/2007 11:10 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Cathi Kemp  Quote: Connie Sutherland Chicken quarters, green tripe, and veggie glop...... organs in there somewhere? I’m a bit confused again but this time it’s about green tripe. In one of my posts back in January I was getting clarification on whether gizzards were organ or muscle (per Cindy Easton Rhodes, gizzards are muscle). In that post I snuck in a question about green tripe but I don’t think anyone saw it so I never got the response from this forum. It was after that when I found what I thought was the correct answer in Carina Beth MacDonald’s book “Raw Dog Food”. She categorizes green tripe as organ. (I never understood that). In what category does green tripe fall - veggies, organs or both? Well, it's an organ (stomach) filled with digesting produce. I can't answer precisely, despite having read a zillion pretty boring biological abstracts, but maybe someone else can...... if the dog is eating green (uncleaned) tripe regularly, then are other organ meats unnecessary? Since the quick devouring of organs probably has a lot to do with the fact that they are rich in blood and the nutrients in the blood, I figured I should probably include some of that kind of dense, blood-packed organ meat (like liver, kidneys, etc.). But I'm not a biologist, and I haven't seen a definitive answer.
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Cathi Kemp wrote 04/16/2007 02:10 PM Re: Dogs being finicky or bad food? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #138346 - 04/16/2007 02:10 PM
Cathi Kemp Webboard User Reg: 01-21-2007 Posts: 265 Loc: Los Angeles, CA Offline	So, I guess my next question is how do most of you feed green tripe? As a treat, as a combination of veggies and organs? My guess is that most of you aren't anal like me. I still weigh to make sure I have my percentages accurate. http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w49/catkemp9/
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Connie Sutherland wrote 04/27/2007 11:03 AM Re: Dogs being finicky or bad food? [Re: Cathi Kemp ] #139724 - 04/27/2007 11:03 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Cathi Kemp So, I guess my next question is how do most of you feed green tripe? As a treat, as a combination of veggies and organs? My guess is that most of you aren't anal like me. I still weigh to make sure I have my percentages accurate. OK, I finally found what I believe to be an authoritative asnwer about what type of food green tripe is. Whole Dog Journal (May 2007) says that tripe is most similar to muscle meat (with produce, of course). Also, as Cindy said, they consider beef heart to have mainly muscle-meat qualities except for having taurine (and that some dogs will find it too rich if it's fed in large quantities). They mentioned that organs like livers, kidneys, etc., still should make up 5 to 10% of the diet.
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