Connie Sutherland wrote 05/02/2007 11:02 AM Re: RAW feeders (and people who eat chicken!!!) [Re: Steve Behnam ] #140314 - 05/02/2007 11:02 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Steve Behnam I know I'm probably opening myself up to some attack here...... To think that by feeding raw based on chickens that are picked up on sale at wal-mart or costco I'm increasing their lives is a little strange and ignorant. I shop at Wal-Mart and Costco but have a hard time accepting that the chickens that are sold there are high-quality organic, free-range chickens that are not fed by-products or injected with hormones and steroids. Face it, if you're paying 50 cents a pound for chicken, you're not buying high quality meat that's not going to pass on the crap that it has in it on to your dog. No attack from me. We all have to choose. I'm sure that the people who have done the reading and prefer to have more control over what goes into their dogs' dish would rather not be called strange or ignorant. I'd be very surprised, too, to find that the meat or poultry in commercial food was somehow better than what is sold in markets for human consumption ... any market.
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Steve Behnam wrote 05/02/2007 11:03 AM Re: RAW feeders (and people who eat chicken!!!) [Re: Mara Jessup ] #140315 - 05/02/2007 11:03 AM
Steve Behnam Webboard User Reg: 09-06-2005 Posts: 95 Loc: Boston, MA Offline	Federal Law/FDA law prohibits self medicating cattle or livestock with hormones and steroids. It's common practice and par for the course to administer in the food supply. Connie- I don't disagree with you that it's better to control what your dog eats and doesn't eat. If you're feeding the higher end brands that are listed on Ed's site for example, you should feel comfortable with the fact that it's as good as raw, especially if you're not feeding organic to your pets. If the meat used in the high-end kibble is human grade and not by-products, you're feeding your dog what you are eating for dinner.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 05/02/2007 11:11 AM Re: RAW feeders (and people who eat chicken!!!) [Re: Steve Behnam ] #140317 - 05/02/2007 11:11 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: steve behnam Federal Law/FDA law prohibits self medicating cattle or livestock with hormones and steroids. It's common practice and par for the course to administer in the food supply. Connie- I don't disagree with you that it's better to control what your dog eats and doesn't eat. If you're feeding the higher end brands that are listed on Ed's site for example, you should feel comfortable with the fact that it's as good as raw, especially if you're not feeding organic to your pets. If the meat used in the high-end kibble is human grade and not by-products, you're feeding your dog what you are eating for dinner. "It's as good as raw" is your opinion, Steve, to which you're entitled ... just as the people who have decided that they agree with Drs. Lonsdale, Billinghurst, and others, about how dogs have evolved to eat raw meat, bones, and fat, are entitled to theirs. I actually am feeding organic to my animals, but not baked and extruded. But everyone has to choose for themselves. I never call people who do some research and decide on the best commercial kibbles either "strange" or "ignorant." At least, not for that choice.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 05/02/2007 11:16 AM Re: RAW feeders (and people who eat chicken!!!) [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #140319 - 05/02/2007 11:16 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	I will add that we will all be expressing our opinions with no attack on the intelligence or non-strangeness of people with different ones.... or we will have locked threads and individual warnings, similar to the one I just sent by PM. :>
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Steve Behnam wrote 05/02/2007 11:17 AM Re: RAW feeders (and people who eat chicken!!!) [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #140320 - 05/02/2007 11:17 AM
Steve Behnam Webboard User Reg: 09-06-2005 Posts: 95 Loc: Boston, MA Offline	Kudos to you Connie for feeding organic you're certainly doing the right thing. Maybe I should have used the word unaware rather than ignorant. Most people in this country are unaware of the things that go into their food supply. Frankly, you wouldn't want to know! 99% of the things in our food and water supply won't harm you or your pets. Organic raw is the way to go, but if you are faced with the option of low grade raw meats or a high end kibble, my opinion at least, is that the high end kibble is as good as the raw option. No offense intended to anyone by my post and use of words.
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Amber Morgan wrote 05/02/2007 11:20 AM Re: RAW feeders (and people who eat chicken!!!) [Re: Steve Behnam ] #140321 - 05/02/2007 11:20 AM
Amber Morgan Webboard User Reg: 10-18-2006 Posts: 1849 Loc: St. Louis, MO Offline	Quote: Steve Behnam To think that by feeding raw based on chickens that are picked up on sale at wal-mart or costco I'm increasing their lives is a little strange and ignorant. I shop at Wal-Mart and Costco but have a hard time accepting that the chickens that are sold there are high-quality organic, free-range chickens that are not fed by-products or injected with hormones and steroids. So are you saying that your kibble is made from organic, free-range chickens? What kibble are you feeding?  Quote: Steve Behnam If the meat used in the high-end kibble is human grade and not by-products, you're feeding your dog what you are eating for dinner. Steve, I'm confused. Even if you're getting your chicken from Costco or the like, you're still getting human-grade chicken. Are you saying that if you feed a kibble that has organic, free-range chix then you're better off than if you're feeding raw with non-organic, confined animal meat sources? I agree with you that many dogs do well on a high-quality kibble. Mine did. But I think they're doing even BETTER on the raw diet. I think there are more benifits to raw than just the issue of the meat source. Carbon
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Mara Jessup wrote 05/02/2007 11:20 AM Re: RAW feeders (and people who eat chicken!!!) [Re: Steve Behnam ] #140322 - 05/02/2007 11:20 AM
Mara Jessup Webboard User Reg: 12-28-2005 Posts: 2316 Loc: Offline	Quote: Federal Law/FDA law prohibits self medicating cattle or livestock with hormones and steroids. It's common practice and par for the course to administer in the food supply. Yes, BUT, what I said was that there are no steroids or hormones in poultry. I realized that antibiotics are commonly used in poultry. And that hormones/other growth agents are used in many livestock operations. Which is why I'm trying to figure out how to used locally grown raw - so I can know what goes in it! ETA, unless you're using organic kibble, these are most likely the type of meats in the kibble you're feeding. Even if it's a kibble made with human grade ingredients K-9 Knitter
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Amber Morgan wrote 05/02/2007 11:21 AM Re: RAW feeders (and people who eat chicken!!!) [Re: Amber Morgan ] #140323 - 05/02/2007 11:21 AM
Amber Morgan Webboard User Reg: 10-18-2006 Posts: 1849 Loc: St. Louis, MO Offline	I was writing while you posted, sorry! Carbon
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Connie Sutherland wrote 05/02/2007 11:24 AM Re: RAW feeders (and people who eat chicken!!!) [Re: Steve Behnam ] #140325 - 05/02/2007 11:24 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: steve behnam Kudos to you Connie for feeding organic you're certainly doing the right thing. Maybe I should have used the word unaware rather than ignorant. Most people in this country are unaware of the things that go into their food supply. Frankly, you wouldn't want to know! 99% of the things in our food and water supply won't harm you or your pets. Organic raw is the way to go, but if you are faced with the option of low grade raw meats or a high end kibble, my opinion at least, is that the high end kibble is as good as the raw option. No offense intended to anyone by my post and use of words. I'm glad you think I'm doing the right thing . Whew! I have to do without some things to feed my dogs organic meat, and I might not be able to if I were still feeding kids. I'd still feed fresh raw food to my dogs, though, buying the best I could afford. Again, I would be very surprised to find that even high-end kibble contained meat that was superior to what people find in the supermarket. And I'm pretty informed on this topic. Or at least, in my unaware state, I like to think that I am. I actually listened in canine nutrition classes and I actually read all the books with my eyes open. Again, your opinion is fine, but if people are "unaware" (and yes, we are, largely) of what goes into the food supply for humans, then why in the world would we think we are fully aware of what goes into the food supply for animals?
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Connie Sutherland wrote 05/02/2007 11:31 AM Re: RAW feeders (and people who eat chicken!!!) [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #140327 - 05/02/2007 11:31 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	P.S. I DO think we all have to research and read and do what we think is best, and I DO think there are some excellent commercial products.
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