Ok then I guess all German shepherd breeders should stop breeding. I think that people should only breed pedigree dogs and alter the pets. Hopefuly most breeders are breeding for the same good reasons I have. Also my pups are coming with an altering contract that will have to be signed and brought to court by me if they do not send me a vet statement. I am here to discuss what hip place I should use. I already made my mind up to breed my girl once yearly. I only have the two dogs I am not breeding dozens of dogs.

 Quote: chris little

Why does anyone choose to breed?

http://www.google.com/custom?q=penn+hip&sa=Search&cof=T%3A%23663300%3BLW%3A597%3BBIMG%3AMicrosoft+Theme&domains=www.leerburg.com&sitesearch=www.leerburg.com

If you google DOGS, GOOD REASONS TO BREED, you will see dozens of lists of good reasons *not* to breed. Always in the top two or three is this one: My dogs are "beautiful, well-socialized, healthy.... etc., and my goal is to produce the same."

No one here wants to jump on you or on anyone who just doesn't yet realize what a disservice it is to dogs to breed more pet dogs when every year in the US alone four million more dogs enter shelters. Most do not find permanent homes; many (over 50%) never leave alive. Many of those (over 25%) are pure breeds. A human was involved in the breeding of almost every one of those dogs, either by not preventing a pregnancy or by actively arranging one.

Even the part about owning two healthy "breeding dogs" -- responsible breeders hold in their hands a minimum of five generations of pedigree and have personally seen at least the parents (and preferably several generations of relatives) of their dogs and know that they are true representatives of the breed.

But that's just one small part of the many many facets there are to ethical breeding.

These things are being pointed out with dogs in mind. If you feel attacked, please remember that this is a forum of dog people. Dogs' well-being is what everyone on this thread has in mind.

I remember overhearing something about dogs that come into season every 4 months are difficult breeders. Maybe it was in one of Ed's DVDs? Anybody know about this?

Breeding a poor breeder doesn't improve the vitality of the breed as a whole. It can do severe damage over time. Think of the Boston Terrier. Selecting breeding stock for appearance first and "pet quality" temperament brought the breed down to a level that only rarely can they naturally reproduce. It erased much of the breed's terrier temperament.

In short, it takes a lot more than good hips to make a good dog.

I've learned from animal rescue that pet contracts (like an altering contract) are extremely difficult to enforce. It's not "buying an indulgence" that allows you to breed.

Yes I understand all this. I know several wonderful GS breeders who agree too but what do they do? They breed these dogs. Nobody should jump and ask why I am deciding to breed. I came here to talk about PENN and OFA not why I am breeding which is up to me. incase anyone is wondering. when my pups leave and if someone can't keep the dog I will help find a new home for them, that is my policy and not to be placed in a shelter. Its every breeders dog that may end up in a shelter not just a new breeders, its even the best GS breeders who have been breeding dogs for 20 years also who end up in a shelter. Also I have seen non titled dogs keep forever homes and titeled ones end up being put down or in a shelter. It can happen to any dog. I have leeburg lines on my male and my female has titled dogs I guess now that is a plus.

That sounds odd to me if a female comes in heat every 4 months does not make it a bad breeder, might be more prone to pyo but that is another story.
Also I know that young females who just started to season might not be regulated yet and normaly might end up haveing 3 cycles. I think right now the 4 cycles gives me an oportunity to deceide when I want to breed her more where some breeders only have 2 chances to choose when its best. I had been breeding pedigree cats also for 8 years and I use a contract and not had one person not honor it.

I believe it was that the breedings don't "take" with a female with frequent seasons. I don't remember the source, but I think it was one of Ed's DVds.

Are you saying that I yet don't realize the number of dogs in shelters? That is every breeders fault even the best ones. I can't alow that to stop me from breeding. There will always be back yard breeders who don't care thouse are the ones that should not breed but that does not clasify me I am new to this board but not new to life. I was not born yesterday and I know how many animlas are in shelters. I also know that PENN hip can damage a dogs hips and its wrong to pop legs out of sockets but so many breeders are doing that too.

Thanks for the info. I will have to look into this. I do know the mom also had 4 cycles but ended up having 3 when she was 3 years old.

Unfortunately yes, breeding is up to you. I much prefer the german system where dogs must be breed surveyed prior to breeding or the pups can't be registered thus bringing the price way down so as to discourage back yard breeders.

The problem with bitches that have cycles this often is that if she is not out of heat long enough between her cycles, she will not ovulate. There is also the increased risk of pyometra from the estrogen that bathes the uterus with each cycle. A bitch that has 4 cycles a year is most likely not ovulating. No ovum = no puppies.

As to the original question. I go with OFA. It is more widely accepted and recognized. So far as if a buyer will accept a prelim versus a actual #, that is the buyers decision.