Quote: Louis LaRose

i am feeding a ~6oz ball of ground meat (deer, lamb, beef, or turkey-depending on the ziplok that i pull randomly) coupled with about 5-7 gizzard/liver pieces and 2 smallish chicken neck bones....and @ nite i add in one whole egg with the shell, as per above posts....

i am going to start adding in some salmon oil, kelp, and alfalfa next week when i get them in....

yogurt is good for the digestive enzymes, right? 1TBSP or so once a day will work? what yogurt-plain, right? and is there any particular brand that you recommend?

tia

1. Actually, the question was along the lines of How many ounces (or pounds) per day are you feeding, and what is the dog's weight ...... we were asking this because an average rough starting place for adult dogs is about 2 to 3% of the dog's weight per day.

That would also be a way to gauge the RMB percent, which still sounds a little low, but it's hard to tell. 6 ounces of ground muscle meat and two small chicken necks, to figure out whether you are feeding enough bone, needs to be expressed in weight (how many ounces of chicken necks with the 6 ounces of muscle meat).

Ditto the organ meat, which you want to be 5 to 10% of the total.

2. Yogurt: Yes, plain, no sugar, natural yogurt with live cultures. You want it to say something about live or active cultures. (Some yogurts in the supermarket are really more like a dessert than a probiotic. )

I think these are all easy to find and top quality (and there are others); I look for sales:
Seven Stars Farm
Brown Cow
Stonyfield Farms
and
Redwood Farms Goat Yogurt
Old Chatham Sheep Yogurt

There are other probiotics, too:
http://www.leerburg.com/55.htm
http://www.leerburg.com/50.htm

sorry for the confusion.

the dog weighs about 65# at the moment.

the chicken necks are probably about 2-3oz each

the ground meat portion is actually close to 8 oz.

and the gizzards weigh in about 3-4 oz.

From your menu, I think you are somewhat overloaded on your muscle meat. Assuming your dog is an adult, at 65 lbs. you should be feeding him about 26 oz. of food per day (this is using the ratio of 2.5% of his weight. You can adjust this if he gains or loses too much). I use a formula of 60% rmbs, 35% muscle meat, and 5% organ meat. This translates into:

15 oz. bones (chicken necks, backs, wings, etc.)
9 oz. muscle meat (hamburger, gizzards, hearts, etc.)
2 oz. organ meat (liver, kidneys)

If you feed twice a day, divide the portions in half.

The best way to judge how much to feed is by look and feel. If you can feel traces of his ribs, he is fine; no ribs = too heavy; bony ribs = too thin. Also, you want to see a nice waistline on him.

 Quote: Jan Williamson

From your menu, I think you are somewhat overloaded on your muscle meat. Assuming your dog is an adult, at 65 lbs. you should be feeding him about 26 oz. of food per day (this is using the ratio of 2.5% of his weight. You can adjust this if he gains or loses too much). I use a formula of 60% rmbs, 35% muscle meat, and 5% organ meat. This translates into:

15 oz. bones (chicken necks, backs, wings, etc.)
9 oz. muscle meat (hamburger, gizzards, hearts, etc.)
2 oz. organ meat (liver, kidneys)

If you feed twice a day, divide the portions in half.

The best way to judge how much to feed is by look and feel. If you can feel traces of his ribs, he is fine; no ribs = too heavy; bony ribs = too thin. Also, you want to see a nice waistline on him.

Ditto. I have that size dog too, and for him it works out at just about a pound and a half a day (or a tad under).*

Jan's suggestions are just about what I do.

http://www.leerburg.com/diet2.htm
(scroll down to the 65-pound dog) is good, too (noting that the week works out to what Jan is saying -- not necessarily each day), and happens to be just your dog's size, Louis.

Let us know if the throwing up was just that one-time (maybe carsickness) occasion.

* The 2-3% is a rough guide; some need the higher end and some the lower, depending on activity and metabolism, etc. As Jan says, how the dog looks is how to know if you are feeding the right amount.

On some older dogs, I've noticed, the waistline isn't always the perfect guide because some dogs start to pack any extra weight around the neck and shoulders as they age, but by then we usually know what the right weight is for the dog and can watch the scale.

so, i seem to be inline with the 65# guidlines...

BUT....i think he is kind of small....if i "think" he should be a bigger male, and is obviously still growing...

with that in mind, should i feed him on the 90# scale...b/c i "think" that he should be closer to that mark...he will be 8mos old in 2 weeks.....

if that is the case, i would basically need to DOUBLE what he is eating...b/c 3% of 90 is ~2.7# of food...and the packs of food i made for him are about 12oz each....

i would like him to bulk up a little...he 'seems' to be a bit on the thin side...BUT i know it would be better for him to be a little thin than a littl FAT....

and for now, he has not thrown up again....

i am getting some yogurt tonite on the way home....

thanks for all the help...keep it coming...and keep it positive...my wife is still a little leary of me giving him bones and stuff....but he seems to be doing fine with them...

1. You are going to up the RMBs, right?

2. The 2-3% is meant for adults.

Growing pups need more -- I have read recommendations of 5-10%.

For an adult, though, the recommendation (at least, IMO) is to feed the amount that's appropriate for the desired weight. That is, if the dog is too heavy (for example) to feed the amount that's suitable for the weight he should be.

But if the dog is only a little thin, I don't think I would double the food.

What does the vet think about his weight?

P.S. When your wife sees what his teeth, eyes, coat, and skin look like compared to other dogs you know, she will be just as enthusiastic as you, I betcha. And when you start salmon oil and E, watch his coat.

i can already tell that his coat is better....it actually looks shinier than before...when he gets in the sun it is REALLY noticeable....

i think that i will add a little more bone to his diet...i think that 2 wings should suffice and i can get them pretty cheap individually frozen, and just pull them out when i pull his other food....

and as far as his teeth are concerned...i had already noticed some yellow coloring on his back teeth, probably from the kibbles and the nature's variety food that he was eating...there is nothing substantial in there for him to chew on...BUT NOW, all of his teeth are WHITE as they can be....what a nice thing...they are actually pretty intimidating when that visible....

still undecided about the RMB's....i want him to get more accustomed to the bone idea...and i dont know exactly what i would feed him at this point. is there any RMB that is considered more 'conservative' than others? something that he may have an easier time with???

 Quote: Louis LaRose

i think that i will add a little more bone to his diet...
still undecided about the RMB's.... i want him to get more accustomed to the bone idea...and i dont know exactly what i would feed him at this point. ... is there any RMB that is considered more 'conservative' than others? something that he may have an easier time with? ...

I think we're having a little terminology misunderstanding. It's a very common one; in fact, it's so common that the two terms are explained in Cindy's raw feeding Q&A (quoted below).

RMBs are raw meaty bones -- the basis of the raw diet, and the most important component by far. Chicken backs, chicken necks, quarters, lamb riblets -- these are examples of RMBs. Recreational bones, OTOH, are strictly optional.

When we were saying that your dog's meals were light on RMBs and heavy on muscle meat, we meant that the ground meat to chicken neck ratio (in the example of what you are feeding) was a little off ... light on the chicken necks (the RMB in the meal you mentioned).

QUOTE:
What is a RMB?
RMB is an abbreviation for raw meaty bone. Raw meaty bones are soft enough for your dog to chew and eat completely. RMBs are the foundation of the raw diet. A few examples of RMBs are chicken wings, chicken backs, chicken necks, turkey necks, lamb necks, pork necks and oxtails. We use chicken leg quarters for many of our RMB meals. Many people say that small dogs can’t handle leg quarters but our 11 pound Phoebe has no problem consuming them. We start our GSD and Malinois pups on leg quarters at 3 ½ to 4 months old although I am sure they are capable of handling them at an earlier age. END QUOTE from http://leerburg.com/feedingarawdiet.htm#RMB

From the same page, QUOTE:
What is a recreational bone?
A recreational bone is a larger bone that your dog will chew but NOT completely consume. What may be a recreational bone for a Yorkie, may be a RMB for a Rottweiler. Some examples of recreational bones are cow femurs, knuckle bones and marrow bones. ... I like recreational bones for puppies up to the age of about 6 or 7 months, but if the bones are left out and become dry they are like a cement block! I know many dogs that have permanently damaged or broken their teeth on recreational bones. Use discretion with this type of bone. Also be aware that when they dry out and dropped they can have shards break off that could be potentially dangerous to your dog should they swallow them. END


P.S. Isn't it great what a good diet does for those teeth? I feel sure that as your wife sees how healthy and happy your dog is, she'll applaud the fresh diet too. I'll bet we all had the same worries and fear she has. I sure did.

with RMBs, i was not referring to chicken..lol...i would have considered another bone an RMB...which is why i was asking. sorry for the confusion.

i was thinking that you guys were feeding a host of other bones like ribs and the like, and wondered which ones were the best to give. i have no problem upping the neck bone content of his foods. i could add backs, but since (necks & backs) are very similar, and i can get th enecks at such a great $, i would just add more of them....so, would that suffice?

i understand the difference b/t rmbs and recreational bones just fine. i give him a couple of amrrow bones a week at this point...

so far he is doing great...there seems to be no issues whatsoever since the switch...one runny stool and an upset stomach after a ride are ok by me.

the rest of his stools have been nice and clumpped, with a hint of bone matter and eggshell....