Quote:

... most of the national competitors buy the dogs already trained ...

I pulled out my listing of the dogs at the 2006 USA German Shepherd Nationals in Gadsden, AL.

Of the 63 dogs entered, 38 were marked as HOT -- handler-owned and trained.

9 of the top 10 finishers were HOT. 15 of the top 20 were HOT.

Of the dogs with the lowest scores for the trial (those that were not pulled for injuries or for not outing), 6 of 10 were NOT handler owned & trained.

I suspect that many of the non-HOT dogs were purchased as young dogs with a basic Sch I title or a B. Essentially, old enough to prove they had the drives and structure to do the work.

Mike Diehl's dog, Basco was not listed as HOT. Mike and Basco won the 2006 championship. I doubt that anyone believes the Mike had little to do with the training of Basco. Some of you may also recall Mike's old dog, Stormfront's Bronson.

The official definition of HOT is a shifting target. However, it is generally accepted that it means the handler/owner has put every title on the dog starting with the B and finishing up with the SchIII.

I suspect it's pretty rare that someone purchases a fully-titled, trained, top-level dog and is able to maintain that level of work.

"What about newbies (with family) training with people who are training for national level schH? My experience is that people training for nationals have their own form of time constraints (and high level focus on *their* training) and have little to no more "understanding" for the "newbie"...as if they have forgotten what it is to start out and be *new* to schH. Not to mention those who train in schH and do not have children in the home to contend with... "

I disagree with this. Some of it is both sided - people will walk up to someone about to go on the field to chat with them, etc..... It might be a timing issue. It is not a "level" thing. Depends on what the focus is at that point.
Some competitors, at events, will start to focus on the task at hand a bit before.

Most of the competitors that I have met from the local to the WUSV level(and I am married to one) are pretty open and friendly. I will loan you our 3 yr old, who has no problem playing and running around at events. But, we let Gabor get ready and focus on what he has to do. He is at the event to compete, no to schmooze, etc. Same with training, but he is not rude. He likes when people watch others and ask. What frustrates him is when people are instant experts, do not watch and ask. You can learn something from anyone.

And he has always competed with HOT dogs, from the get go. Two world teams this year.

"What about newbies (with family) training with people who are training for national level schH? My experience is that people training for nationals have their own form of time constraints (and high level focus on *their* training) and have little to no more "understanding" for the "newbie"...as if they have forgotten what it is to start out and be *new* to schH. Not to mention those who train in schH and do not have children in the home to contend with..."


Michelle, you're training with the wrong people then.

 Quote: will rambeau

Michelle, you're training with the wrong people then.

Actually, I am not training with the wrong people. I am striving to "find my place" in the schH world, and the "world" is pretty vast (all things considered). Like was said earlier, it is up to ME to have a clear head about MY goals and do what it takes to achieve them. Has anyone here had a "smooth sailing" beginning at schH?

I posted to gather clarity about some thoughts regarding what was said to me specifically about raising my dog as a family pet and that I wasn't really doing schH anyway...thus the "wonder" and need for me to clarify and figure out how to proceed. Thus, I "tossed" it to this board because I so much appreciate the collective effort. IMO, it is clear: self actualization is a requirement to pursue schH. I'm working on it...

Mike (Arnold), I wasn't responding to your post directly, yours was just the most convenient to reply to I don't think I read most of this thread when replying, just giving my 2 cents about dogs being able to pick up house manners "along the way" if you have a little patience with them

Hi,

I read the post and of course I have an opinion.

I have been reading this training board, various books and watching videos for years. I felt I needed to be prepared.
The most valuable lesson I learned is: I need to do what is RIGHT for me and my SITUATION.

I had to consider the amount of time I had to train and exercise the dog, my ability as a trainer, and my level of experience. I also had to consider what my goals for her were. My goals for her: pet and a schutzhund title. If we can’t get the schutzhund title, I can accept that.

For example, the type of dog I can control is totally different from the type of dog Ed Frawley, Bernhard Flinks or Claudia Romard can control. They have first hand experience. I do not. Reading and watching videos about a dog’s behavior and training is very different from applying it.

I had a choice of two reputable kennels (Rokanhaus and Van Gogh) when the original puppy choice fell through. Both kennels were aware of my level of experience. (I had to fill out an application for both kennels.) They didn’t try to pressure me into buying and even held the pups for me without a deposit. They were each aware of the other kennel’s presence.

I went to visit the first kennel and the pup set aside for me was exactly as the breeder described. There was another pup (Djinga) who seemed to be “showing off” for me. She was the first to reach me and kept wanting to engage me in play. My instinct told me this was the pup I should have. Both pups showed a love for small children and people. Djinga was a bit more “alligator-like”. (I am aware there are times when pups “blossom” after they are in their new homes and other traits become more apparent.) Djinga seemed to be the one for me.

I also had to consider what rules I wanted the dog to follow. She is now seventeen weeks old and I did use redirection until she was twelve weeks. It was a bit difficult at times because she is a wee bit determined and those razor sharp teeth hurt. (She shredded a pair of jeans while I was in them. These are officially my dog walking jeans.)

I now tell her “no” for jumping on children. She also gets a “no” when she bites and actually grabs my skin. (This dog has bitten me on my thighs.)

Things have been wonderful with her. She gets a lot of attention anywhere we go. (It surprises me.) When I walk her along a busy road, people honk their horns. (It is the dog because when I walk on the road by myself, all is silent.

I am very happy with my dog and I am very happy with having her as a house dog. In my opinion, what good is a canine companion if all they can do is win titles and you can’t “enjoy” their company.

PS
Schoonbrood your posts always leave me laughing!

---

C White



Djinga von Rokanhaus

Michelle,

Even though I had that long post, I forgot to a few things.


I am fortunate in that my club has experienced members. I believe one of them has made it to nationals.

They are patient and sometimes they are impatient but they realize the newbies don't know anything.

Three members of my club have in excess of twenty plus years experience in schutzhund. I find her to be ethical and EXTREMELY knowledgeable.

They allowed me to come and watch the training sessions even though I did not have a puppy. (I did thos for almost a year before I brought Della home.

 Quote: michele mcatee

 Quote: geoff empey

I recognized a problem but was scratching my head about a solution and needed consultation with people of more experience to come up with a solution.

Having access to some national level people or other talented trainers, that's great. To me though I still think that I have to recognize my own abilities and shortcomings and learn from that before going ahead with the higher level training. That has to be the first step to understanding to what I maybe getting into.

I really like what is said here...it is a give and take, a live and learn, a willingness to see both vantage points (ie: national level trainer versus newbie (mom) with 6 month old, gots what it takes to do schH, pup. Or not necessarly *versus* but yes, it is possible to join...

The core of the quote above is actually what I was driving at with my initial post...if that makes any sense...

There are many levels and every level it seems deals with time constraints, dedications, procrastinations and other various successes...convoluted and focused training sessions...as well as, what else? Is it possible for this topic to be "summed up"??

I'm not sure if we can "sum it up" as the question is very broad and to me at least and every answer poses another question, in my mind at least!

I know your concerns are the same as mine and I probably have the same questions and second guesses myself.

It's unfortunate that in another thread I felt attacked for trying to ask the same question with a poor written choice of words on my part. (that's what happens when I try to be funny)

You say

 Quote: Michele McAtee

it is a give and take, a live and learn, a willingness to see both vantage points (ie: national level trainer versus newbie (mom) with 6 month old,

Or a newbie like myself with a 3 and a 5 year old boy.

We live and learn but at least we have our eyes open ..