They are definitely not the same but unfortunately they, along with many other breeds including some you wouldn't believe, ar lumped together as victims of all the ill-designed BSL out there these days.

I too think they are different breeds, but being a Bully breed, they are sometimes all lumped together. Even my Boxer. Most people who don't have any education on canines can't tell a Boxer from a Pitt from an AM Bully. I do agree though, that some of these horrible breeders are to blame. Like who bred the monstrous dog in the second photo. IMO, that dog is UGLY and should never be called a PB. I grew up with PB's. They were about 35-45 lbs. I loved those dogs. I also have some friends with AM Bullies and my brother has a E. Bulldog. They are all great dogs, because they have great owners. I am partial to the molossers as well .

Yeah, the dog in the 2nd photo isn't the worst I've seen, that dog at least had a fairly straight front, I've seen some Pits and ambulls that are so wide in the front they are bow-legged and toe-out, the bones in their legs are not thick enough in comparrison to the width of the chest and the croup is about 3" higher than the withers because the back-end doesn't match the front. It's a wonder some of those studs can cover a female, but I guess with AI and all anything is possible.

I've seen some of that BSL BS. I've seen apartment complexes that don't accept any breed over 60 pounds other than Labs and Goldens, strictly prohibiting GSDs, Dobies, Rotties, Pits, BullMastiffs and many more (plus any mix thereof)

I'm sorry but I've met a few bad-tempered Labs and Goldens, ANY breed can be destructive or aggressive because any breed can be left untrained and improperly handled. A lot of people buy Labs and Goldens from working field lines and don't know what they are getting into but that's a different topic lol

I understand the need for controlling the dog population but that should be done by prohibiting the people not the dogs. I would not be surprised to see chihuahuas fighting in a ring someday because pits have been banned, they will use whatever they can.

Wow I'm on a rant here, sorry guys!

Basic idea being: ambulls, while bully not "pit"bully though it is a miracle ambulls are not more widespread in the fighting ring, I think they went with Canies (Cane Corsos) and Filas for the size. I pitty owners of the Dogo as well, and the Presa and SAB, too soon will the merciless eye of the uneducated and ignorant be fixed on them, too.

The second picture is an American Bully. It is classified as a PB breed, but nothing like or close to an APBT. The dog in the picture is APBT or AM Staff mixed with a Molosser, typically a mastiff for size. A Am Bully tends to lose its physical fitness ability, which is very prevalent in a well bred American Bulldog and key to an APBT. A American Bully is bred as a fashion accessory IMHO, not sure what their work is???????????

http://www.workingpitbull.com/history.htm

I don't believe and have never believed that the English Bulldog (poor, pathetic creature) has anything to do with the APBT. This is the best link I've found to explain why.

As for the AB/APBT, I don't think they're anywhere near the same, but then again, we have morons who are interbreeding them with mastiffs, etc. to get huge bully-type dogs and then calling all of them Pit Bulls....

Normal Pit Bullwarning-bias)
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Jenwilliams918/7-9-07008.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Jenwilliams918/7-9-07024.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Jenwilliams918/mia.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Jenwilliams918/jenspics038.jpg

What was that poor freakish creature in the second picture supposed to be? They cannot call that a Pit Bull.

Yes they do indeed call it a pit bull, and Valerie I have seen the information posted for the breed now dubbed the "American Bully" but all information I have seen says these dogs are supposed to be pit bulls and/or amstaffs etc that have just been bred over the years to be that low-slung and massive.

The second dog is supposed to be a pit bull, and you can look up several bloodlines that breed dogs to look like that such as Dominion, Razors Edge, McCoy (though McCoy also has some very nice looking dogs that are not as "freakish" *IMO*) T's Top Dogs, The Bully Gang, etc. Razors Edge now calls their dogs American Bullies, that is a recent development and most of these kennels still refer to their dogs as pitbulls in order to sell them.

Jenni .. heh you don't believe that you never, or you don't believe that you ever thought the English Bulldog had anything to do with the APBT? Just curious

I don't believe that the English Bulldog in it's current form had anything to do with it, but it wasn't always so beer-keg-on-sticks like, the English Bulldog used to be just the Bulldog before it was bred to look cute and rolly polly after the ban on dog fighting/bull baiting. I just can't imagine an English Bulldog taking down a bull the way it looks now, it's kind of a funny thought once you get past the stupidity of the sport.

My wife currently owns an APBT. I have owned an American Bulldog.

Although I cannot find a fault with my wife's APBT, I generally do not like any type of terrier breed, whether it be an APBT, a Yorkshire Terrier or a Jack Russel Terrier. I feel that in the right situation ANY terrier breed has too high a prey drive and will not focus on any other direction or command given. I feel they are all rebels and should come with their own leather jacket to signify how they disrespect authority.

I loved my American Bulldog and was looking for another when I found the Rottie I ended up with. I would not be surprised if I end up owning another American Bulldog in the future. In the area that I live it's difficult to ensure that what is being billed as an American Bulldog is indeed such and not an APBT, as the names around here are used interchangably and the dogs are bred without regard. It is frustrating and depressing for me to see so many uneducated people destroying both breeds. For what it's worth, I have never bred any animal, as I realize that I do not have the knowledge, resources or desire to do it correctly.

Another discouragement is that insurance companies are now laying out a blanket designation to exclude "Bully" breeds. Although the large print on a homeowner's policy may exclude APBTs, the fine print often excludes all "Bully" breeds such as Staffordshire Terriers, American Bulldogs, Dogue de Bordeux,etc.

 Quote: Jennifer Marshal

Jenni .. heh you don't believe that you never, or you don't believe that you ever thought the English Bulldog had anything to do with the APBT? Just curious

I don't understand what you're asking???

 Quote: Jenni Williams

I don't believe and have never believed that the English Bulldog (poor, pathetic creature) has anything to do with the APBT.

The English Bulldog has nothing to do with what the English Bulldog used to be either, for that matter.

Part of me hates to admit I even like Pit Bulls, since these gross mutations are what the average Joe thinks a Pit Bull is.

The way you stated it looked like you were saying you didn't think they never had, which my mind saw as a double negative and being slightly dyslexic I got confused lol.

I understand now, you don't think they ever had anything to do with the creation of the APBT

As for the current form of the EB, I may have been mistaken since I am not much into that specific breed but I was under the impression that the current EB was bred from the original stock? I could definitely be wrong, but that is always how it was portrayed to me by breeders and breed fanatics.

Did you open that link? It has a really good explanation, including dates of when names were changed, breeds branched off, etc. I feel quite sorry for the current EB.

Right-IMO, my APBT (the cutest one in the whole entire world, BTW) has zip, zero, nada, zilch, nothing, to do with the current, very sad, unable to breath or reproduce naturally, EB. Well, Valerie's are kinda cute, too, I guess.

PBS had a really interesting documentary on the development of breeds, and I was so glad that they went way into the EB and called it what it was-a breed completely and totally mutated and useless, bearing no resemblance to it's former namesakes.