Quote: sandy moore

Adjustment time will be longer than if she were just an 8 week old.

This makes sense. And I know every dog adjusts differently. I've never experienced a dog that was this slow adjusting, but we'll see how she's doing in two weeks. Just because I haven't experienced it before doesn't mean it's uncommon.

 Quote: sandy moore

I'm also not at all concerned that she showed any dominance to your other dog. Just correct it (appropriate for her age) and train her through it. She's 4 months old, a baby, so getting a little feisty with another dog is not something to already tag her with the "aggressive" label.

Yeah, I wasn't trying to label her agressive per se. But the fact that she's still a bit timid and she was already snappy just concerned me.

 Quote: sandy moore

I don't see a problem. You said "At the breeders house she showed good drive, and was not the least bit timid." She was in a place she was familiar with and was blossoming and I'd hold off on serious assessment until she's familiar with her new family and home.

Fair enough. Thanks very much for the input.

 Quote: Denise Hau

I have a few concerns here. Where did you get this dog and what were her living conditions? You stated the dog has never worn a collar or a used a leash before. Why not? ...
...What kind of socialization experiences has she had before you came along?

The breeder (Bellington Shepherds) came highly recommended by several reliable dog people. She lived in a room with her litter mates, they had access to about a 2 acre enclosed pasture for romps several hours a day, and the breeder described pretty good socialization with people (grandkids, dinner guests, etc) but she had never been on a car ride before we took her home.

 Quote: Denise Hau

I can understand a dog being timid in a new environment. How would you feel if your situation was reversed? Give her a couple of weeks to get used to your household routine and if you still have concerns contact the breeder and discuss it.

Oh I agree, it's disconcerting, I've just never had a dog behave this timidly. Sandy Moore raised a good point about age, though.

 Quote: Denise Hau

I am concerned about the food aggression she is already showing towards your other dog because she has been there for such a short time and is already showing her dominant side.

If she's dominant I won't be upset. However, if she's snapping out of fear or nervousness, I'm super concerned.

Thanks to everyone who replied, all comments are greatly appreciated and I'm certainly going to be thinking on everything everyone said.

Especially Keith Larson. :P

David, I sent you a PM.

David, I think you need to explain to everyone WHAT YOU WANT OUT OF A DOG, and that you're not evaluating her as a pet. IMO, not getting out of the car by herself is a bit low on the confidence scale. Ok for a pet, but you're not looking for a pet. Of course everyone is jumping to defend her actions, but they don't realize that you haven't yet committed to this dog, and you ARE able to return her, per the agreement w/the breeder, who understands that this pup is nowhere near what you had your heart set on, but that you're trying to be a great guy and not terrify your wife with, say, one of my darlings I offered to make available to you. One of whom, BTW, would never snap at Noah for wanting attention (excuse the shameless Blaster plug)

I think the board has gotten the idea that you want to RETURN her b/c she's not perfect, which sounds a bit cold, when in fact, you didn't want to buy a dog like this in the first place, and have merely agreed to keep an open mind and entertained the idea of a trial run.

Am I way off or dead-on?

Haha. I love blaster!

Yeah, you're right Jenni. I should clarify that a bit.

I'm looking for a dog that can live in the house. That said, I'm not looking for a house pet. I'm looking for a dog with working drives and the temperament for PP. I want to train her as a PPD and possibly compete in a sport on the side (Schutz, Ring, etc). That's why I was looking for a Czech with med/strong drives; not as a pet to laze about. The reason I'm concerned about this timidity is, I'm trying to ascertain whether or not she's capable of being truly civil. She seems a little too handler dependant at this point, though she's much less timid today (She actually pulled on our walk, trying to look at things).

Hope that adds a bit more understanding. I should have had that present to begin with. Jenni is absolutely right, this is a "trial run" to see if she has the makings of a good civil working dog.

I totally agree with Sandy. This pup has had her world turned upside down, AND she's still a baby. If she were mine I would give her a week at the very least. Patience...Be careful that you don't give her unconscious signals of disappointment or disapproval that she will pick up on. If you already think she is sub-standard you will be focusing on every little bad thing and not see the good. If she has the temperament to assert herself this soon over your other dog she sounds pretty confident to me. It sounds like your biggest gripe is her not knowing how to walk on a leash and hesitation to go off the porch THE FIRST DAY. Patience!
There was an experiment done with college students and their rats: Students in one group each got a rat they were told was super smart, the students in the other group each got a rat they were told was retarded. They each had to train their rats to go through a maze. The students with the smart rats treated their rats like they were smart. The dumb rat group treated their rats like they were dumb. The end result was that the "smart" rats had better times than the "dumb" rats. IN REALITY THEY ALL HAD RATS THAT WERE OF EQUAL INTELLIGENCE!! Your preconceived ideas will have an effect on your actions and your animals' actions.

David
How much time do you have to take the pup back?
Would you rather have a dog that is not your ideal (satisfies your wife), or no dog. If you won't be satisfied with a substitute it wouldn't be fair to the dog to keep her.

Debbie:

How I feel about the dog at this point has very little effect on how I handle and treat her. I think that study is very interesting, but, as someone who has worked with dogs for a good while and read more books than you can shake a stick at, I have more self awareness and control than a college student in a double blind experiment with no knowledge of training. For a PPD, it is essential that the dog be bold and independant. Seeing how it reacts in new situations (on the porch, for instance) is a big deal. You might instead say, "It's understandable that the dog is leary of following a strange handler" -- This is acceptable, a dog that is afraid to walk off of the porch makes me hesitate.

As far as how long I have, contractually, 30 days. The breeder said he'd take the dog back at any time and offer a full refund, but I know that I wouldn't rely on a verbal agreement with my closest friends about something like this, I'm not about to put him in that position.

Second question is excellent, but oversimplifies the situation. My wife isn't totally fond of Macy, she would be less fond of a different dog but she is very much of the mindset that the second dog is "My dog". All things are permissable, but not all things are profitable. I could get the dog I want, and it might be a wedge between us. Also, I'm not ready to discount the possibility that macy could BE the dog I want, which would be optimal. I was really just looking for opinions on whether or not I'm rushing judgement, and what to look out for.

-David

If your wife isn't "totally fond" of her, then why are you even considering keeping her? She's not the dog you want, she's not what you'd pick out, and your wife is not in love with her. If your wife isn't going to be head over heels in love w/a dog, then the way I see it, why not get the dog you want, ie, a dog who has the temperament you need for what you want to do with it. What the ladies have said is somewhat true, (she's a baby, yada yada yada0, but, the point is that probably 85-90% of all dogs DON'T have the drive/temperament needed to do PPD work...and while her behavior might be totally normal and common, she will not, in all liklihood, be able to do what you want. I wish some of the serious PPD trainers would chime in w/what THEY look for in a pup of that age. Why not pose that question to the board? Or do a search? Probably could find a bunch...

You may as well go to a pound and get a nice pet, for almost nothing. JMO.

Yeah, but remember what I said about her and big dogs. She's comfortable with macy, she's not comfortable around more high strung dogs. She'll come to like Macy, as will I if I let myself.

But let me reiterate, and you know this about me: I'm only going to keep her if I think she's capable of being what I want. I'm still in the "assessment" phase.