I have a question that is somewhat germane to the present thread concerning dogs holding/carrying the sleeve. About a dozen years ago, I did a little quarry work for a friend who was at that time a police canine officer. He was about to take his dog to the Canadian National Police Dog trials, and had just heard that there would be a new exercise called for as part of the protection phase. This consisted of the helper taking a bite on a standard sleeve, while also wearing a hidden sleeve on the other arm. The helper would then slip the standard sleeve. The desired response from the dog was to drop the sleeve immediately and re-engage the helper on the hidden sleeve. My friend's dog had never done this before the session where I served as helper.(His regular police officer helper was away.) His dog (who I believe placed quite high in the trials that year)spat the sleeve out and came back for me so quickly that I barely had time to get my other arm up so he could bite the hidden sleeve. Just for interest, his dog was reasonably social with me when I wasn't doing helper work, but was what I think the members of this board would describe as a high fight drive dog, if I understand the term correctly.

I would appreciate knowing whether this type of exercise is considered "old-style" training?, desirable in some cases but not others?, retricted to service dogs?, or what? I would also very much appreciate hearing from the expert canine officers as to whether they think this exercise has any value in testing dogs with some Schutzhund training to determine aptitude for personal protection work, or would this test not be useful for dogs that have been taught to carry the leeve, contest prey, etc.? (I ask this latter question because I may be looking at one or more dogs of this sort down the road.) My thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide.

Thomas,
I can't say for sure why he has me tie her out. I can hold her fine, and I do quite often while chasing him with the sleeve on. When she is tied out, I am right there beside her telling her what a good girl she is and petting her back. I will try holding under her head and see if that works. His attacks are a little of both, sometimes he will run by others he will do a frontal attack.

Good catch Thomas!(Need some help on the use of white space in letter writing though. LOL). I’ve been away for a day or two and I read her post twice wondering if I was missing something. Who slips the sleeve while on a tie out? The only time I have seen that done is to a new handler where the dog wears two collars. One on the back tie and one with the handler just for the reason of the circle and carry.

Greg. I have not seen that done in sport. I have seen wearing two sleeves but never what you described.

Greg,

Although I have never seen this done either, I can see some value in the test. Some "sleeve happy" dogs may not go back to make the bite on the man. You could argue that a criminal would not have a sleeve handy to distract with, so the test would be just as effective with the hidden sleeve only. The test may have some value in that some dogs see a slipped sleeve as the end of an exercise if there is no other sleeve visable. In an incident where someone was able to slip the dog by say slipping off a coat that the dog has bitten, it would be of value to insure that the dog could be directed back in for the bite.

The carry is a begining exercise, as the training progersses the carry will be dropped by the dog when multiple agitators are used or when the dog is confronted by multiple sleeves.

Greg,
About ten years ago there was a movement to get away from "Sport" or "Prey" based training in PSD's. I think the International Congress of Police Dogs even banned such training as the dog getting the sleeve as a reward.
I think it is a good idea, know of a couple of cases where a dog seperated from a suspect with a jacket....but would not use it as too much of a test when selecting dogs.
As it can be trained very easily.

Vince, Richard, Jack:

Thanks very much for your help re the "slipped sleeve exercise".

Greg