Yes, and so far we are both pretty happy with her. I stated these questions just for my own peace of mind. Sandy and I talk often and we both have similar questions and discussions on occasion. However, due to extreme distance for me, I am going to be interviewing two other trainers somewhat closer to me than the one I am currently using. I actually have an interview with a guy in Tucson that has apprenticed with Ivan Balabanov. Getting answers to some of these questions, helps to arm me with the proper questions in which to interview prospective trainers. For Sandy and I, coming to this forum on a regular basis is indicitive of our dedication to the proper approach to protection training. We both have the utmost respect for the forum members that have experience in this field and for this purpose we hope for as much information as possible in which to arm ourselves with PROPER knowledge. That we might avoid making mistakes that others have made. We know this is no game and are just trying to be responsible in our endeavors.

 Quote: robbinmann

So, what would be acceptable? 3,4,5 sessions on the tug before moving to the sleeve? 4,5,6 sessions on the sleeve before moving to the vest? I mean what exactly consists of "foundation" work.

It really depends on the dog. Obviously the number of times you go out to train also changes things drastically. I used to work dogs 4 days a week, you get alot more done if the dog is doing these things 4 times a week. Some dogs stayed with a puppy bite wedge for 6 weeks before we were happy with moving them to the adult bite wedge, other dogs were ready for the adult bite wedge right off the bat. Some dogs could move to the sleeve pretty quickly, while other dogs stayed on the adult bite wedge for months and months. Theres no definite answer to your question because its down to reading the dog and judging what the dog needs to make him better.

Some dogs go pretty quick, other dogs will still be working on a bite wedge in 3 months. The foundation is about making the dog understand how to be in the right frame of mind to do the work. One dog in particular I remember well, he was all hackles up defensive the first time he came out, so for this dog the foundation involves not only setting the dogs grip and teaching them technique, but also making them understand that we're not at war and there's no need for the hackling. This dog took 6 sessions before he came out of the crate without being stupid about it, and another 10 sessions after that before I was happy with him. Had we rushed it and gone to sleeve work on the 4th session then the pressure would be too high for the dog because he doesn't understand the situation and you end up with a dog that thinks he's at war, too busy trying to survive to pay attention and learn what he's really supposed to be doing. Some people might think "wow look at that dog, he's really trying to kill the decoy thrashing his head around snarling viciously!". In reality if I hit the dog with a stick he'd let go and back off, because he never learnt to deal with the stress.

So really, there is no answer to how long it takes. Just make sure you have a trainer that doesn't rush you. Some trainers feel like they need to rush a dog because they will lose a client if they keep doing the same thing and charging for it. Or they over-work a dog because they want their client to get their moneys worth. My showline dog is a good example here. We figured out that his first bite was always his best bite, and bite 2 and 3 wasn't as good. So for months, he got 1 bite then went to the car. A client that has to drive an hour and get only 1 bite with their dog might be very annoyed thinking they are not getting their moneys worth, when in reality that is the best thing you could do for the dog so he doesn't practice bad habbits of not biting properly.

Mike I think you're great, always taking the time to write out details, that's awesome

Robbin , we have a helper seminar coming up February, you & Sandy should come out and attend (watch) and talk to some of our helpers that are GREAT at PPD work, we're not that far from you both...come out ..we'd love to have you guys.

Angelique, can you pm me with more details. Sandy and I might just be able to put something together. This would be awesome! Thanks to you, Mike for your time and help. Appreciated, as always.