This thread is months old, but I will say this.....

Pack leaders do not give something to eat and then take away again. Therefore, I feed in crates or kennels (well, Rock eats in the kitchen) and then I leave the dog alone.

I used to think that taking it away would fix the issue, but I have since learned that it is not fair to the dog to feed in a traffic area and then correct when they are trying to eat.

I do take over and take away things that the dogs should not have, but that is the only time.

adding to say: there are tons of discussion on this if you do a search...

lol carol, we were both answering the same thing at the same time. I didn't see the original date of the post, just the recent post.

You would be right if the situation being described was one that if not corrected, would lead to a further escalation of aggression, but it doesn't. If she was normal after she finished eating, then this is a dog with a real special treat being fed amidst other dogs and a human. She was merely stating she was holding on to what she got. Or she may be a grumpy, vocal food guarder like Carols Bloodhound. If it were my dog, I would take note, probably crate feed her those special, special treats, and not worry about it.

OOPS - I didn't take note of the original date of this thread, AND I think all three of us responded at the same time!

yeah, we did! But it was resurrected by someone with a question, so I guess it's good that it was answered.

I feel that I need to clarify...

I do not take the food away just to prove a point. Actually, I never take his dinner away. If I am standing next to him just getting some water, not threatening, he shouldn't be growling at me. I might proof him sometimes by simply petting him in a calm and passive way while he eats or by putting my hand on the bowl or in his food. I do not take his meal away, I just correct him for growling at me.

I am not trying to establish leadership by taking food away. 1) I do not take the food away, 2) I do not go out of my way to bully any of my dogs. I never bully my dogs. In my own experiences, said dog has NOT shown any increased aggression toward me in any way as a result of our interactions and my enforcement of discipline. This dog does not fear me and respects me the most out of the household. I am consistent and fair in my position in our "pack."

This is a dominant dog who spent the first year of his life neglected and not disciplined, so he ran with his ability to control his environment.

Looking back on my post I was pretty vague and posted in haste as I was off to bed. With high-value items (say, RMB, for example) I give it to the dog, but hold it while he chews on it. I make him "out" and then give it right back. I don't just take the item away, as like you said, it will make the dog guard it even more next time. The dog eventually is at the point where I just give him the bone and walk away. What I do is correct for the growling/lip curling/teeth baring, take the item, then give it back. It's in the same theme of teaching a dog to surrender something when retrieving, knowing that it will get it back.

I don't want the dog to think he's about to lose his prize at any moment around me, I just do not tolerate aggression, especially since there are children in my extended family. I understand that there are working dogs that are at a higher level and are not family pets and as such wouldn't be corrected for some kinds of aggression. My dogs are an integral part of my family, though. They are my partners first (and as such, live with me) and SchH dogs second. I adore the sport, but for the bond that it forges with my dog and I. I don't want a lunatic who is on a knife's edge, ready to lash out and bite somebody at any moment. It's why I have my blockheads-- they're 80lb. lapdogs who drool all over your house. What's not to love?

Thank you, everyone, for your input. It is helpful to point that critical lens inward. You bring up very good points. A (dominant) dog who is afraid of losing their resource will be more apt to guard it. Being a jerk will not nurture a balanced relationship with ones dog-- being a benevolent, fair, consistent leader does.

 Quote: carol boche

This thread is months old, but I will say this.....

I am fairly new to this board and as such am not versed in the etiquette here.

I was not aware that the post was as old as it was.. However, is there something wrong with reviving an informative thread? I know that people have started a thread countless times only to be replied with, "this topic has been addressed umpteen times already!"

Not a problem to answer a thread or post a question at all.
I don't think there is anything wrong with replying to a thread that is under 3 months old. Usually if it is older than that, the original poster is gone or the issue has been solved.

The reason we tell people that the subject has been discussed a lot is to encourage people to use the search function. Many issues have been answered doing this as this site, both the LB main site and the discussion board is full of answers and helpful information. Plus, if we were to answer every thread it would be repetetive, and sometimes a lot of us have answered with lenghty, detailed answers that takes time to type over and over.

Over 10,000 pages of information.

If you have an issue that you want to discuss, then I would start a new thread.

 Quote: lesya zaichenko

I feel that I need to clarify...

I do not take the food away just to prove a point. Actually, I never take his dinner away. If I am standing next to him just getting some water, not threatening, he shouldn't be growling at me. I might proof him sometimes by simply petting him in a calm and passive way while he eats or by putting my hand on the bowl or in his food. I do not take his meal away, I just correct him for growling at me.

Again, I really think that this action causes this problem. Growling over food is not exclusive to dominance. In fact, the Omega will growl to protect food as well. Even from the alpha! Plus, if an omega has food, and a higher ranking member walks too close after already eating it's fill, the higher ranking will back down and leave the lower ranking member to eat in peace!

 Quote: lesya zaichenko

This is a dominant dog who spent the first year of his life neglected and not disciplined, so he ran with his ability to control his environment.

As someone who works with re-habbing pit bulls who used to be fighting dogs as well as extreme abuse cases, I am going to tell you that IMHO it is MORE important with a dog from this backround to learn that you will not only not stand over or around them while they are eating, you will not let others do it either. Pack leaders DO NOT stay around the food once they are done. Period. They get up and LEAVE so the lower members can eat in peace. THis is not a dominance or leadership thing, its a STRESS thing. Stnading in the room even, at first can cause this. Once the dog learns you are not going to put your hand in the bowl or take it away (even for a second) they relax about it and move on. The fact that the dog is growling at you when eating (even just ocasionally) means it is stressed about you abusing your power of leader and it thinks you are about to take the food away!

 Quote: lesya zaichenko

The dog eventually is at the point where I just give him the bone and walk away. What I do is correct for the growling/lip curling/teeth baring, take the item, then give it back. It's in the same theme of teaching a dog to surrender something when retrieving, knowing that it will get it back.

Unfortunately, a toy is not the same as food. The toys are yours, so this is appropriate (or switching the toy out to teach the dog it will get it back) But it IS different for food.

 Quote: lesya zaichenko

I don't want a lunatic who is on a knife's edge, ready to lash out and bite somebody at any moment...
A (dominant) dog who is afraid of losing their resource will be more apt to guard it. Being a jerk will not nurture a balanced relationship with ones dog-- being a benevolent, fair, consistent leader does.

I will be honest here - I used to believe that taking the food, etc would keep aggressive behavior at bay. When I tried the hands off approach and left them in peace I realized that I had less aggression in other things SOONER. Try it - this doesn't just apply to working or dominant dogs, it's ALL dogs. Food etiquette has a huge impact on how the dog behaves. Just look at how quickly a dog thinks it is in charge when you allow them to "graze". Try feeding and giving recreational bones in the crate and leaving them be. In some of the worst cases that I have worked with, once the dog realized that I was fair and would not make them fight for their food, they relaxed into the routine very quickly and the other aggression issues disappeared quickly as well.
Also, I dont leave the food bowls down, ever. Once the meal is up, the bowls are up. And feeding in the crate or at least a separate area from the water will prevent the dog guarding the area in anticipation for food.

 Quote:

I might proof him sometimes by simply petting him in a calm and passive way while he eats or by putting my hand on the bowl or in his food. I do not take his meal away, I just correct him for growling at me.

Feed in a crate and leave him alone.

What makes you think these are dominance issues???? Neglected for the first year in his life doesn't necessarily spell out dominance to me.

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I just correct him for growling at me.

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What I do is correct for the growling/lip curling/teeth baring, take the item, then give it back. It's in the same theme of teaching a dog to surrender something when retrieving, knowing that it will get it back.

I see growling a bit different. A growl is a warning. If you tell the dog he cannot growl then the next option he has is action--biting/attacking.

Shannon