thank you!!

 Quote: Old earth dog Bob Scott

I've chosen to eliminate the correction and go with pure motivational with my last two dogs. Withholding a reward can be as intense to a highly motivated dog as any correction. It was a struggle for an old yank and crank trainer such as myself, but I stuck with it because I believe it!
As with ANY dog training method, you have to believe in the method your using. They all work in the right hands.

Pure motivational That's cool if that works for you, I tottally get the withholding of reward to build the dog's drive to please. We have been working that pretty hard with my dog ..but.. I find she still needs a zing from time to time though, especially if I know she knows the exercise and decides that she is NOT going to do it for whatever reason.

I've seen other dogs trained with lot's of heavy handed corrections. The handlers think that their dogs are the cat's meow. But looking at it from the outside everybody else sees a dog that works in fear of the handler not a dog that want to please it's handler. Big difference ...

I've trained all the other commands using markers. Never heard of it before finding this site and wasn't sure how, or if, it was going to work. I was fairly stunned how easy it was and how fast my then-pup caught on.

As far as corrections go, we've arrived at the point where most times a neutral "no" when he's not doing something he knows seems to be effective. When he does it right, I mark it and reward.

This works on my driven, but not hard-headed, Lab. I totally get how this might not work with a high-drive Mal or GSD. Depends on the dog, I guess. So when I was talking about giving a correction, I didn't mean a physical one at this stage. Just wanted to clarify that.

As for on-lead/off-lead...I've read of people doing both with success. I've trained everything up to this point off-lead since I can't seem to walk and chew gum at the same time. Managing a lead, a dog, and thinking about what I'm trying to accomplish translates to stress and tension...it ends up not being fun for me so I know it's not fun for him.

I'm going to try going back to treats. He really does get too amped up with a ball.

Geoff and Bob: Thank you! I really appreciate your help.

Sarah, since you're going back to giving treats (good idea), try giving them out of your left hand, just a little above True's head so he has to look up and just a little off from your waist until he gets the proper position again.

Thanks, Sandy.

I know you've heard all this from me before...you'll probably be just as happy as I am when I finally get this nailed down and can shut up about it.

I'm still working on perfecting my dog's heeling. After reading your clarifications and the others responses, I'll add what I found when starting was off leash heeling was actually easier to train than on leash. Probably because the dog got so used to being led around on the lead it was something novel for her to be off lead and she just wanted to get it right.

I started by leading off with a smelly treat and using a clicker when the dog is in proper position. The hardest part is being consistent and timing the treat. That's where I used the clicker in the initial part .. it is a lot easier to be consistent with the clicker.

i.e. the dog is perfect heeling position .. you click .. you keep walking .. the dog is now anticipating something good .. keep going .. click .. say every 3rd or 4th click you treat the dog just you have to be in the right position and have the treat in the perfect spot as Sandy described.

When you break the exercise down into simple steps you'll have guaranteed success.

Hmmm...I haven't tried a clicker yet.

Cindy posted recently about successfully using a clicker to train "leave it" and that post got me thinking about using one. Didn't even think about it for training heeling.

So the clicker takes the place of the verbal marker (in my case, the word "Yes")?

This may be very helpful. Thanks so much, Geoff!

 Quote: sarah morris

So the clicker takes the place of the verbal marker (in my case, the word "Yes")?

Yes.

 Quote: Sarah Morris

Thanks, Sandy.

I know you've heard all this from me before...you'll probably be just as happy as I am when I finally get this nailed down and can shut up about it.

Not at all actually . Reason I posted about the position of your left hand was cause Lear was beginning to heel with his hindquarters by my legs and his front end wrapped around the front of me. So I had to change the position of the treat. Gotta love the enthusiasm yet remembering that one of the goals is to be able to walk . We're always working on it. Of course, our heeling is not for competition but just cause it's fun as heck. (My disclaimer )

 Quote: sarah morris

Hmmm...I haven't tried a clicker yet.

Cindy posted recently about successfully using a clicker to train "leave it" and that post got me thinking about using one. Didn't even think about it for training heeling.

So the clicker takes the place of the verbal marker (in my case, the word "Yes")?

This may be very helpful. Thanks so much, Geoff!

No Problem,

As a general rule when I'm teaching new obedience things to the dog I use the clicker. My reasoning is even a happy high pitched "YES!!" (or in my case Happy Foghorn Leghorn Baritone) is going to be not consistent, due to the inflections of the human voice. If the dog has just even basic clicker exposure the dog will zero in on the click as doing something right and will put 2 and 2 together and fast.