Mike
You are living in Belgium, I will be very suprised if you find one owner working on the Sleeve with his own Dog, if you do it will be a rare occurance Certainly not in the three clubs in Belgium i attend they do not

I've known people from all countries including Belgium that have worked their own dogs on sleeves and suits in Schutzhund, NVBK, French Ring, ASR, you name it. It is not about the handler wearing the sleeve, it is about the handler knowing what he is doing. All a sleeve is, is a tug toy worn on the arm, the dog still sees it as a toy. If you can play tug with the dog, you can wear a sleeve with the dog. There is a point where this relationship may change, but in a young dog it doesn't matter. I have a picture somewhere taken a few months ago of a KNPV dog with the dogs owner in the bite suit because he wants his dog worked a certain way. While some people might not do it, it certainly isn't a country-by-country thing, nor is there a right or wrong about it.

I too am thinking about doing Schutzhund with my dog, Chaos. I have NO idea where to look for a club near me. I did look online and found a few, but they are all over 2 hours from us. And with gas prices the way they are, I can forget that! I live in lower Michigan near Kalamazoo. Any one have any ideas they can throw my way?

Lets just say its a No' No' in the Clubs i belong to, Then perhaps they are all behind the times, but they will not do it.
Yesterday' a Top Qualified Fellow who Judges Schutzund Competitions was one of only three people at the Club Yesterday besides myself and my Brother, the rest had gone to Holland to watch the Inter Countries Championship, Belgium v Holland and the Belgium team Captain who is Secretary of our Club was a Judge in the Championship
anyway this fellow put on the Suit to give a stint on Protection with Fred' and another Dog, One other said to him after the dogs were finished, was he going to put his own Dog on the Sleeve, He Said No, not whilst he was wearing it, no others there were Qualified to put the suit on so his Dog went without.
But I will make some enquires around some other Clubs and see what reactions i get because i fi nd this very interesting

 Quote: Anna Hull

I too am thinking about doing Schutzhund with my dog, Chaos. I have NO idea where to look for a club near me. I did look online and found a few, but they are all over 2 hours from us. And with gas prices the way they are, I can forget that! I live in lower Michigan near Kalamazoo. Any one have any ideas they can throw my way?

Anna,

I know Roni Hoff is training about an hour from you at http://www.tristark9.com/index.html. I don't know her personally but I have heard good things.

Hi Steve, I just wanted to say that on average you are correct, most people should not do this with their own dogs. The difference is Mike is a very good helper and is qualified to work his own dog because he can read his dog & knows how to work without conflicting his own dog.

There is a very fine line between defence and prey with a lot of dogs. Something as simple as eye contact or your body position can create the conflict Susan mentions.
Sleeve work is best left to someone that really understands what's in a dog's head.
I never work my own dogs in biter work simply because I'm to much of a demanding, dominant, SOB with my dogs. Even with the motivational training I do, I have someone watching me.......SHHH!........The're always watching me!

 Quote: susan tuck

Mike is a very good helper and is qualified to work his own dog because he can read his dog & knows how to work without conflicting his own dog.

Agreed

Oops, wait, no, I meant to quote this... yeah, really, I did!

 Quote:

most people should not do this with their own dogs

I have only just had my fifth session with my dog. He is a 13 month old gsd. He has done great bite work from the beginning, therefore the helper put him on an adult wedge from the get go, however, we recently attempted a leg sleeve and had the same experience that you had. The "mommy is it okay to bite this guy on his leg" came up quite often, it took many tries with several different methods before he was willing to bite and even then, only halfheartedly, which is where we ended with much praise. However, yesterdays session the dog came out of the shoot like a bull! It's almost as if something turned on in his head and said this is what I'm supposed to do! It was awesome! We didn't work him on the leg again but will the next session. Building his confidence is key and now we can attempt the leg again. A good helper is essential to working an inexperienced dog. My dog is very immature but more than willing to engage once he knows what is expected of him. Sometimes the dog just needs to know what is expected of him and once he does then it's on! Dump the dude with the stupid attitude and find someone who really knows what the heck they are talking about. Read as much on the board as you can absorb so that you know what to look for. This work really is a science of sorts and requires those that really know what they are doing. I got worried about my dog the other day but he helper never did and just kept trying different things until he built the dog up enough to produce the results that we wanted. It's really an amazing thing to see a helper that really knows what he is doing. After yesterdays session, my helper made the comment that all of a sudden my dog wants more challenge! Exactly what we wanted. Don't give up yet but remain realistic about your dogs abilities. Good luck.

So I never really got a clear indication of if I should wear a sleeve with my own dog. I've really got him to come out of his shell as of late. He loves playing tug even with other people. He'll play with distractions around though his grip will be kind of loose at first. He's made a lot of improvements.

Some people said don't do it, some people said its ok. It seems like ed evem say its doable in this article (I know how much you guys like to use Ed's articles here ): http://www.leerburg.com/drives.htm

I mean just wearing the sleeve as an extension of tug of war, getting him excited about sleeves, building up the drive. What do you guys think?