teagan hard stares ALL the time - but since she doesn't go after people, i leave it - i do think it's a dominant behaviour, but other than working on her focusing on me, i haven't a clue how to change it so that she defers to me - it's her standard operating mode, and while i want her to accept me as dominant, i'm not certain that she will be rid of all of her dominant behaviours - my understanding is it will be more a matter of me controlling them.

(perhaps i should start glaring at everyone so as to outstare teagan....hee....maybe not)

So should I give my dog a correction for the eye contact or staring? Sometimes this is a good thing but I dont want him doing it in a school or for example - the store at the mall to nice people!! At what point do you correct so as to not diminish there assessing of " bad guys" ?

Ditto what Jennifer is saying. Dominance issues are part of our issue too. Is this hard stare going to be an ever present behavior- as in part of the dogs disposition that is hard wired?

my thought for eye contact/staring is that it's better to redirect - that's what i've gotten from other threads.

it's a bit of a slow process for teagan, and i'm not sure i can totally rid her of the behaviour (to me, it's not like she sees someone and gives them a hard stare, it's like she's hard staring just waiting for an object - dog, person, car - to direct it at).

i'm so not an experienced person, but i think correcting for staring might be confusing - maybe it's just how i see it, but it's not an overt behaviour with obvious cause and effect if a correction was given - smart people/experts? is it that obvious that the dog would get it was being corrected for staring? or is the redirect more effective?

My opinion is that my dog does not assess bad guys. Period. I do. If I am relaxed and not scared, then my dog should be too. with that being said, there are certain people that certain dogs just do not like and will eye. That does not neccessarily bother me so long as I don't have a rank issue with the dog and the dog will again listen and focus on me. Focusing on me does not mean look at me either, it just means that if I give an OB command that they will comply without delay. Many times a good dog has good judgement.

so then - teagan's staring is pretty low down on my list of things to work out with her, to be frank, it only comes up b/c it does seem to be a dominant behaviour and i know i am not 100% alpha in her eyes (and maybe once i am this will change, don't know).

her focus visually on me is split, she's getting pretty good about responding to obed. like 'sit' randomly throughout the walk and keeping to a relaxed heel. the biggest thing i'm working on her right now with is actually not breaking a command until i say so.

so then - b/c she's not being aggressive towards people outside of giving them intimidating glares, i shouldn't bother about this? i also wonder b/c - with luc, when he growled at people in an alert aggressive position - i didn't like it a)b/c he was not deferring to me; and b)he was intimidating ppl and i think he knew it. teagan must know she's intimidating - ppl get out of her way, i can see she's intimidating them. is it okay to allow a dog to knowingly (i think) intimidate ppl? (assuming it's not acting as a PPD)

edit: i totally agree that i should be the one doing the assessing - and that's what i taught luc - but i find this more confusing with teagan. luc was openly being aggressive, teagan seems to be displaying dominant body language but not going after ppl, so i can't necessarily say she's not deferring to my judgement - does that make sense?

well my dog has been RIGHT ON about every time when it comes to people but I feel like he stares at every one in a general observation mode- then the hard stare comes when someone is scared of him as perhaps they have had a bad experiance in their past with a dog- or he will hard stare and bark if it is a weirdo!! I just would prefer that he not take the next step and bark-- at my school- at a staff member- Is the staring a traight of more protective breeds or is it a dominance behavior.

 Quote: Jennifer Mullen

her focus visually on me is split, she's getting pretty good about responding to obed. like 'sit' randomly throughout the walk and keeping to a relaxed heel. the biggest thing i'm working on her right now with is actually not breaking a command until i say so.

so then - b/c she's not being aggressive towards people outside of giving them intimidating glares, i shouldn't bother about this? i also wonder b/c - with luc, when he growled at people in an alert aggressive position - i didn't like it a)b/c he was not deferring to me; and b)he was intimidating ppl and i think he knew it. teagan must know she's intimidating - ppl get out of her way, i can see she's intimidating them. is it okay to allow a dog to knowingly (i think) intimidate ppl? (assuming it's not acting as a PPD)

edit: i totally agree that i should be the one doing the assessing - and that's what i taught luc - but i find this more confusing with teagan. luc was openly being aggressive, teagan seems to be displaying dominant body language but not going after ppl, so i can't necessarily say she's not deferring to my judgement - does that make sense?

Personally, I don't worry about a dog looking at me out in the real world all the time. As long as they listen to a command without hesitation I'm happy. Also, my dog does not have to love every person they meet, nor does he have to completely ignore all people he meets. He DOES have to listen to me. It's not the worst thing in the world for a dog to think it's intimidating or dominating people depending on what behavior gets the dog success in that intimidation. If it's calm, focused behavior without any demonstration of aggression - then in my opinion it's almost good. Builds confidence through the dog getting success by acting the way I want.

You have two very different dogs. Teagan sounds as if she would not do much warning or posturing prior to reacting. That's good (confident) and bad (not many warning signs to the untrained eye). Make sure you do exactly what you are doing currently - watch her body language closely and be an effective leader to ensure you don't have rank issues with her.

okay, thanks. b/c i do have her physically within my control, but i can appreciate that a dog giving you the evil eye and looking totally ready to engage if given a reason might not be everyone's favourite neighbourhood dog (and so she's not everyone's favourite dog, not the end of the world, but i don't want to be insensitive to others).

you're totally right about having two very different dogs - i got teagan b/c she is so confident, i thought (and think) she sets a positive example for luc that way.

but she absolutely gives little warning - i've mentioned elsewhere that i'd been watching her for changes in her body language pre-'attack'. we passed by one lab freaking out and barking (teagan doesn't tolerate that behaviour) and i was proud to see BOTH my dogs seeming to ignore the lab - no obvious (to my in-training eyes) body language changes. but the second we got level with the lab, teagan turned (to me without warning) and went for the lab. the kid holding it stopped mid-laugh and screamed, teagan's approach was NOT friendly, she's big and strong and will not tolerate a dog showing disrespect. i stopped her before she got within 2 feet of the lab, but it freaked me out a bit b/c - like you said - i hadn't seen a warning. (the lab did shut up though, heh) that was before i realized that her body language in general is dominant/aggressive, and that i'm going to have to find the really subtle things and i think to a degree, respond situationally to prevent behaviours instead of watching her.

edit: i'm also just thinking, in terms of communicating down the leash, that i may need to be more careful around snotty dogs - b/c i can't stand them either, and if i was a dog - i'd want to go after them as well. there is part of me that's like 'good for you teagan, way to shut that dog up!' which might partially counteract the corrections i give for that sort of behaviour....not sure.

 Quote: jennifer mullen

edit: i'm also just thinking, in terms of communicating down the leash, that i may need to be more careful around snotty dogs - b/c i can't stand them either, and if i was a dog - i'd want to go after them as well. there is part of me that's like 'good for you teagan, way to shut that dog up!' which might partially counteract the corrections i give for that sort of behaviour....not sure.

This may be the case, but I would think you would need to be more careful about being "uneasy" or stressed when she eyes someone and mistakenly sending her the message that someone scares you when you really are worried about her trying to take their head off. Do your best to stay relaxed with other dogs but be ready to give a swift, strong POP on the prong to correct it. Too light of a pop on the prong, especially for harder dogs, can just rev them up.