Dogs working in the Schutzund and on the Sleeve are just ordinary Dogs outside the working field, Once the Dog has done what the handler requires of it and comes off the field the Dog reverts back to being just a Dog. Friendly and Quiet
The Dogs know when they are going training, they act differently, but once the job is done they go back to being just themselves, As regards a Dog being 100% under the commands of the Owner, Handler its just not so, even in Schutzund competitions Dogs do not always respond to the Handler that is why some gain more points than others, in both Obedinece and Sleeve Bite, work.

In Public Places i myself do not think any dog of any Breed or obedinace level should ever be allowed of the Leash.

It just is not fair to other people or mostly to the Dog, If something happens who is going to Pay the Price or Suffer, the Dog of Course, To me for an owner to walk his or her Dog of the Leash is just saying to others My Dog is under my control and its just an ego thing, No, Dog is 100% fully under control off Leash no matter what the owner thinks

Simply put: IT DEPENDS ON THE DOG.

You can speculate all you want and people can give all their experiences and opinions, but at the end of the day, nobody can say yes or no. Some dogs are naturally alot mouthier than others, some dogs are more social than others, some dogs are really obnoxious and others aren't. I like the dogs that are obnoxious and maybe don't make the best "let everybody pet them" dogs. Even my semi working dog will bite peoples clothing out of excitement and used to want to nip people in the face when he was younger.

Most average Sch dogs can go off the field and be just like they would have been without Sch training, and only go into that "mode" when they are cued to do so. Dogs know when they get in the car and take the route to the training field, and hear the bitework, see the decoy etc. They know what's going on, and this doesn't translate to taking a walk through the woods. Other dogs might not do so well in those situations, but usually those dogs wouldn't do well in those situations pre-training either.

It sounds like you have a nice dog, if he has it in him to do Sch then odds are that unless your trainer is abusive or a poor trainer, you shouldn't have any issues. But this also requires that the dog have a clear mind. A dog that is a litte nutty "up there" may not do so well in his differentiations between training and everyday life, but a dog like that shouldn't be doing the work anyway because he is not mentally capable of dealing with it.

In "theory" a sound happy social dog should not change his off-field demeanor by doing sport work.

Good points, Steve. I totally agree with everything you've said about dogs being off leash.

 Quote: carole seller

I hike with my dogs off leash quite a bit and they will get out in front of me around a curve where I can't see them. When I get around the corner people will be interecting with my dogs (petting and such).

I know that you feel that the thread went off the rails a bit, veering away from your question about SchH and possible off-field effects.

But this section concerned me when I first read it and still does.

As Steve Patrick points out, this is dangerous for everyone concerned, including your dogs.

What happens if the group "around the curve" includes an off-leash aggressive dog? That's just ONE of the possibilities running through my mind.

Out of sight and "pretty good" recall -- not good enough for me.

JMO.

Carole,

There are people like me roaming the countryside who administer kicks to the throat, and throw bicycles on top of dogs like your's. There, I said it. I'm a danger to your dog. I really don't give a -f- anymore.

Keep him under control please.

I could go on about my sagas in suburbia, but I'll refrain.

As for Schutzhund and other such dog sports, they're a blast.

Hi Geoff,
Thanks for the response. I will definately check out the link you supplied. I attended a shutzhund trial in my area recently.
The hosting club has been active for many years and even have a designated large field for practice. They have all the equipment and a trained decoy helper. There are actually two clubs in my area. The judge at the trial was actually from one of these clubs so I got the impression that these people are quite knowledgable about the sport.
I recently attended a seminar for developing drive and motivation in your dog. She showed us tapes of her dogs doing obedience. I was wowed by her relationship with her dogs and their motivation to work/play. She said she competes in shutzhund. This is where I first got interested in checking this all out. Then I went to the trial and got some contact info to the clubs. They are breaking until after the holidays. I will check it out more then.
Thank you!
Carole

Is this representative of the type of people that participate in shutzhund??

Carole: I think it's representative of plain spoken people who are sick of uncontrolled dogs running around off leash while oblivious owners call (to no avail). Perhaps Steven is a bit blunt in delivery, but I don't think he means offense.

Schutzhund is a widely practiced sport, I think you'll find all sorts of people there.

Try to see past what you're perceiving as offensive and realize that what Steven Lepic said illustrates the point that we all tried to make; your dog should not be off leash. If an off leash dog approached me and I perceived it as being potentially aggressive, I'd probably react as Steven describes. Just one more reason to keep your dog on leash.

Hi Carole, I do not think schutzhund training will make your dog more or less aggressive towards people but there is something else to think about. If your schutzhund titled dog bites someone on the trail & you are sued, what do you think the judge/jury is going to think about a dog trained in protection sports being off lead in a public place? We must always protect our sport dogs by not putting them in that position.

And I'm sorry, but the sentiment/exasperation expressed by Steve is shared by many of us who hate encountering strange dogs off lead with their well meaning but irritating owners screaming "don't worry he's friendly". I do not go out hiking so that my dog can have an "experience" with someone strangers dog. If my dog is dog aggressive it should not be my responsibility to keep your dog out of harms way.