There are dogs out there, that do not view this stuff as a game no matter what......you can try to make it a game for these dogs, but it isn't. they don't view biting as a game, no matter who is holding the tug or wearing the sleeve or suit or how much dancing around in prey you do. They are not common, but they are out there.

Ember's dad is a prime example. I think Ember is a lot like her old man.

this will be an interesting discussion to have with Michael in a couple of weeks when we head to the seminar, huh Carol?

 Quote: Cindy Easton Rhodes

Ember's dad is a prime example. I think Ember is a lot like her old man.

this will be an interesting discussion to have with Michael in a couple of weeks when we head to the seminar, huh Carol?

Why, yes, yes it will.

I gotta admit, it is worth the effort, and I thought I already had dogs that kept me thinking........yeah right......I have one now......

Cindy seems to have a knack for dogs that keep you thinking. I sure have learned some stuff from my Kaiserhaus girl. Have to be careful what you ask for from Cindy and Ed....you just might get it! LOL!

Good luck Carol...it's a good thing you bought all those bandaids! I still have little scars, not to mention the occasional torn shirt sleeve(like last week)from a "drive by". Just so you don't get discouraged, Winnie will be 5 in April. Nothing like a Mali!!!

 Quote: debbie high

not to mention the occasional torn shirt sleeve(like last week)from a "drive by".

Yesterday was two sweatshirts in less than 15 minutes.
And not little tears either.....4" or more tears because she jumps grabs hangs and uses her feet to brace and pull......HAHAHAHAHAHA the little turdball.

I give her a redirect toy, but last night I made some "sweatshirt tugs" so those are working great today.....

Carol,

So is Embers' surname No yet? As in Ember No, Ember No. Or have you just shortened her name to No No No? LOL, sounds like your having some fun alright. Marden's sells these big bundles of irregular suede insulated gloves once in awhile, they're cheap at twice the price and saves the hands punishment. Maybe a thrift or second hand store will have an old motorcycle jacket for short change, from some experience I'd say don't spend alot, but you'll thank somebody for it every play period.
To your question though on sleeve work. Hmmmmm, is this just a general quarry, or something your considering? If I'm wrong, I know someone here will correct me, but she's still much to young to start her on the sleeve. It's not to early to starts planning for it, with tugs and or leather rag play/work. However I don't know about actual sleeve work for the time being. No matter what toy she's chasing at the moment. Ha ha ha ha yeaaaah!
I can say I've seen my helper work his own young Mali, I think she's about 10 or 12 months. I'll double check with him but I'm pretty sure he has said it wouldn't be for much longer before enlisting some help. On the other hand though, as much fun as it looks, I'd want to learn 'ALOT' more before I'd attempt starting my dog onto a sleeve on my own. And if I say so myself, I read dogs very very good, I'd still be paying for the helper to stand by to show me the way. Gee, that does sound like fun!
Have you stared shopping for a helper yet? It's the next stop after Ed and Cindys' DVD's, it's never to early, and if possible more important then the leather jacket and gloves. LOL

Redirect, redirect, redirect.
Randy

 Quote: randy allen

Carol,

So is Embers' surname No yet? As in Ember No, Ember No. Or have you just shortened her name to No No No? Hmmmmm, is this just a general quarry, or something your considering? If I'm wrong, I know someone here will correct me, but she's still much to young to start her on the sleeve.

Surname: STOP, STOP, STOP

I am going to a Michael Ellis seminar at the end of this month to check out the world of Mondio.....it is time for me to branch out from SAR. I will always train SAR, but man, I drool over the bitework and envy the handlers so, I am going to do that along with accelerant detection.

She mostly carries the sleeve around and I will slip it halfway on and once she gets it, I slip out. Mostly bite-rag stuff and pretty easy going at that.

I am shopping for a decoy that is within an 8 hr drive. Also looking for decoy prospects to send to "school" (our cost not theirs) that are closer.
I have some LE K-9 handlers interested in that and they do decent work with their departments dogs. So I am hopeful.

And yes, Doug has now learned to say "got something for her mouth first" before I open the crate to remind me that I need a redirect item.....HAHAHAHAHAHA It is GREAT!!!!

Yeah Carol, I knew you'd be three steps ahead of me.
Just wanted to scratch the little devil behind the ears and say hi.

Mondio? Cool.
Randy

Maybe one and a half steps ..

I am a pretty serious studier of what I will need before I launch into something. Especially something like this.
I can only hope that I do Ember justice and also do justice by the honor of owning a Kaiserhaus Mal.

I consider myself very lucky.

The people I have met on my journey have all been exceptional for the most part and now diving into this venture, I look forward to meeting even more great people.

This topic I have chosen is for me to learn more of what I need to know in order to become a better handler so I look forward to more of the PPD/Sport/Patrol handlers as well as the trainers that I KNOW are out there, to respond to this.

I think this is a good topic of discussion and that there is always something to share as well as to learn.

I would be interested to hear what your trainer says about the sleeve stuff though Randy. If you can, remember to chat with him about it and bring it back to share. That would be great.

Yes, for sure Carol I'll run it by him. Off the top of my head though I'd say his answer will be the same as Mike and Bob's. And on the do no harm side of the discussion I'd have to throw in with Amber. I think the trouble is, that there are just too many variables in dogs period. Now throw in the dynamics between owner and said dog and try to make any kind of real honest to goodness definitive statement about what is okay and what is not. It's next to impossible when dealing with something as complex as flexing the dog between drives without personlly watching and evaluating the dog and enteraction with owner/handler. You know what I mean, we run into that kind of stuff all the time here on the forum, with issues much less complicated than bite work.
I know this is somewhat muddied and muddled but I hope you get my drift (I'd like to add something worth while). Now I'll butt out and listen to people that know what they're talking about.

On the bye, how old is Ember?


Wet behind the ears.
Randy

PS.
I'm very envious that you can attend an Ellis seminar.

 Quote: randy allen

And on the do no harm side of the discussion I'd have to throw in with Amber.

Eh? As much as I like to do no harm...I don't think I posted on this thread!