the mother of the litter I'm interested has this line in her background..the pedigree database is working again.

 Quote: enrique muniz

I'm actually lucky enough to own one and, I may be a little biased, but I believe she is awesome.

I also have seen video of some of the "legends" like Norbo, Gep, Chuligan, Balli and OMG! They seem fearless, but that's JMO, since I'm not an expert.

Enrique, most of us on here w/Czech dogs have z PS in there. Let's put it this way; it's harder to find a Cz dog withOUT z PS lineage. Like other "fads", Cz breeders (some of course, generalizing here...) have made them out to be some highly elite special type of dog, like many DDR breeders, show breeders, etc. Keep it in mind that for many, breeding is a business, and marketing is vital. Don't think I'm bashing them at all-just trying to be realistic. I have a Grim ggrandson and a Tom great-grandson, (and I like them just fine) and both go back to a slew of other z PS dogs...Titus, Kaso,Klara,Tina, etc. but my point was that it's only to be expected that dogs of the past are romanitcized, and there's no point dwelling on what's done; let's move forward and breed great dogs TODAY.

Also, it's largely a matter of opinion. In talking w/old-time sport and police trainers, who ACTUALLY WORKED A FEW OF THE DOGS YOU MENTIONED, it's apparent that like anything else, people disagree on what is desired. Some love them, and some think they were "pieces of crap." Soooo, anyway....judge the dog you have in front of you, not it's papers, and not what someone else says the dogs in it's pedigree were or were not. JMO.

Yes, my pup has it in his pedigree also. Grim is his grandmothers sire. (Bara Z Oplovny ScHH3, IP03, ZVV3,ZP01 ZPS1)
SchH3V Derrik vom aus Iris SZ/1801341 is his mothers grandfather. Although I haven't tried schutzhund with him, I don't think he'd go to far in protection as he is very soft.

 Quote: Julie Wilson

Didn't the AM bloodlines get watered down because they started focusing more on exaggerated form than function and working ability?

Since you say the Czec became overpopular, do you feel they are suffering from some of the same circumstances as the AM?

I haven't seen evidence of that and hope I never do. Enough screwing around with our German Shepherds.

Just a sidenote on breeders: there are some good breeders of Czech lines out there. They're not all numskulls .

My dog is a Xero zPS grandson, a Grim zPS great-grandson besides other good lines, and yes, he's intense and fearless. Not lines for someone who just wants a pet. It wouldn't be fair to the dog or the owner. They were bred to work, not lay around and be cute all day. These are serious dogs.

So if anyone wants a pet, don't go for the Czech lines.

 Quote: Jenni Williams

Enrique, most of us on here w/Czech dogs have z PS in there. Let's put it this way; it's harder to find a Cz dog withOUT z PS lineage.

This I know already, what I meant was a dog having the name zPS attached to it. That's what I meant, and that's why I said I was very lucky to actually own one with that particular name .

I knew what you meant. I personally wouldn't count anything past 3-4 generations back. The ones I was talking about when I say "z PS" are direct descendents, say the parents were z PS dogs. I used my two as an explanation that I don't have anything against the dogs-not saying THEY were z PS-just trying to be objective and unbiased. Who is your dog, Enrique?

 Quote: mike j schoonbrood

... because too many people are looking for a "working puppy" that can be "the perfect house dog". Just look at the abundance of posts on this forum over the years of people complaining that their working puppy bites. Well, yes, that is what they are bred to do. I wouldn't want to own a working puppy that didn't want to maul me for the first year or so.

I feel fortunate because I think the AM in her made her a decent companion, but she has a really good work ethic. I told her great-grandfather's handler (he was a police K9) that she would make a terrible patrol dog - because she would. I am positive she'd bite readily enough but would not hold if rapped. wrong temperment. Please tell me I can find a great scent dog that won't want to dismember me out of a Czec line! I don't care about destroyed property just loss of life and limb.

Not to answer for Enrique, but this was a post he made about a year ago introducing his female...

http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=121&Number=133211&Searchpage=7&Main=14318&Words=enrique+muniz&topic=0&Search=true#Post133211

Sorry Enrique to be posting for you...

Thanks Jessica, I like to show her off! My male too... The more I learn, the more passionate I am about the breed, particularly Czech lines. Thus, the reason for my question...

http://www.ddrlegends.com/gallery2/v/Czech+Dogs/

Here she is. She's the 9th dog. Chasinta z PS