Michelle Berdusco wrote 02/04/2008 07:03 PM Re: Vet has me worried about calcium/phosphorus ra [Re: Michelle Berdusco ] #179037 - 02/04/2008 07:03 PM
Michelle Berdusco Webboard User Reg: 01-24-2008 Posts: 470 Loc: Offline	Can't believe I forgot to thank you. These dogs are my life. Michelle
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Connie Sutherland wrote 02/04/2008 07:36 PM Re: Vet has me worried about calcium/phosphorus ra [Re: Michelle Berdusco ] #179043 - 02/04/2008 07:36 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Michelle Berdusco WOW that is a huge relief. I really worried that when I gave just muscle meat I threw everything out of whack. Isn't it true that as long as everything is balanced in the LONG run. I ask because I am slightly confused. I understand that the bone balances out the calcium:phosphorus ratio. My question is... Really because like some RMB have lots of bone and little meat (chix wings) and others have lots of meat (chix quartes.) Also the beef ribs didn't have much bone? Also the vet wasn't worried about samonella he specifically said too much calcium. First: I thought he warned about too much phosphorous... not that it's important; what's important is that you don't give too much of either. Yes, it does mean over time. And yes, some RMBs are meatier and some are bonier. The goal is to replicate as nearly as you can a whole prey animal (say, a rabbit or a chicken, since they are easy for us to have a mind-picture of). So if you have several days' worth of bony RMBs, you can add some muscle meat until you're back to approximately the way the meat and bones are on the whole prey animal. Or if you have lots of no-bone meat, you spread it out over several days' worth of bony RMBs. Same goal. You want the total that you add to the balanced raw diet you mentioned over, say, a week, to also be balanced. That's a careful time frame because you are feeding a growing puppy. JMO.
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Geoff Empey wrote 02/04/2008 07:41 PM Re: Vet has me worried about calcium/phosphorus ra [Re: Michelle Berdusco ] #179045 - 02/04/2008 07:41 PM
Geoff Empey Webboard User Reg: 02-07-2007 Posts: 596 Loc: Ottawa Ontario, Canada Offline	Quote: Michelle Berdusco Also the vet wasn't worried about samonella he specifically said too much calcium. I think that is interesting Michelle that the vet would say that. Though the shell contains the majority of the minerals in an egg. There are approximately 2,200 mg of calcium and 20 mg of phosphorus in the shell in any info that I've found. Our good friend Connie has told me in this post .. http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=12&Number=154892&Searchpage=8&Main=16231&Words=Geoff+Empey&topic=0&Search=true#Post154892  Quote: Connie Sutherland Dogs need about 900 mg. of calcium per pound of food. So an egg every 3-4 days shell included wouldn't mess anything up. Egg shell is basically natural Calcium Carbonate. The post that I started last September about the Calcium Carbonate has a wealth of good info about the Calcium question.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 02/04/2008 07:59 PM Re: Vet has me worried about calcium/phosphorus ra [Re: Geoff Empey ] #179048 - 02/04/2008 07:59 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: geoff empey Dogs need about 900 mg. of calcium per pound of food. ... So an egg every 3-4 days shell included wouldn't mess anything up. Egg shell is basically natural Calcium Carbonate. The post that I started last September about the Calcium Carbonate has a wealth of good info about the Calcium question. Right. The shell has the calcium to balance the egg. The 900 mg. per pound of food isn't something that owners who feed RMBs in approximately the same meat-bone ratio as the whole prey animal need to think about. It's something for the rare situations that require calcium supplementation (a no-bone diet, or a cooked diet.....). RMBs that replicate the whole animal "come with" the right ratio.
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Shody Lytle wrote 02/04/2008 08:01 PM Re: Vet has me worried about calcium/phosphorus ra [Re: Geoff Empey ] #179049 - 02/04/2008 08:01 PM
Shody Lytle Webboard User Reg: 06-27-2007 Posts: 547 Loc: Orcutt, California Offline	I loved that thread, and for me the best quote was  Quote: And better yet: you don't need to know anything about the actual deficiencies of Calcium or Phosphorous in the food you feed. You don't even need to know which of the two is missing or insufficient, or in which chemical form they occur. All you need to do is to give your dog plenty of raw bones that will make the imbalances in the food totally insignificant. How much is "plenty"? A good guide would be to use a natural prey animal as standard - about 7-10% of its total weight will be bone, so anything in excess of 10% of the total diet would be "plenty". You should not exceed 25% - because you do need to leave room for other nutrients also… So I don't worry so much. I just shoot for 10-25% of bone. Makes it easy for a RAW newbie. Shody http://www.pbase.com/shody
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Michelle Berdusco wrote 02/04/2008 08:16 PM Re: Vet has me worried about calcium/phosphorus ra [Re: Shody Lytle ] #179052 - 02/04/2008 08:16 PM
Michelle Berdusco Webboard User Reg: 01-24-2008 Posts: 470 Loc: Offline	Geoff Thanks so much for the link to your past thread. That was very imformative. I get the RMB but remember my husband. I sneak every once and awhile but he truely freaks when he hears crunching or sees them. He is not going to change this view. I cannot get Urban Wolf. I could do SOJO'S mix. I can also stay with premade. Premade is better than kibble but still I feel I do not have the quality control I would like. Michelle
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Geoff Empey wrote 02/05/2008 07:52 AM Re: Vet has me worried about calcium/phosphorus ra [Re: Michelle Berdusco ] #179077 - 02/05/2008 07:52 AM
Geoff Empey Webboard User Reg: 02-07-2007 Posts: 596 Loc: Ottawa Ontario, Canada Offline	Quote: Michelle Berdusco I sneak every once and awhile but he truely freaks when he hears crunching or sees them. He is not going to change this view. Oh well I say keep sneaking ..  Quote: I cannot get Urban Wolf. I could do SOJO'S mix. I can also stay with premade. Premade is better than kibble but still I feel I do not have the quality control I would like. There must be a online retailer where you can get Urban Wolf?? Maybe email Ed Frawley and see if he can order it for you? I don't know about the SOJO's mix just check over the ingredient list and double check it with Connie.
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Sue Kobus wrote 02/05/2008 08:26 AM Re: Vet has me worried about calcium/phosphorus ra [Re: Geoff Empey ] #179078 - 02/05/2008 08:26 AM
Sue Kobus Webboard User Reg: 01-11-2005 Posts: 154 Loc: Minnesota Offline	How about getting the chicken backs/wings ground? Would your husband agree to that? Or wouldn't that be good for a pup to have it ground? I get mine ground because my old dog doesn't have much left for teeth. Looks pretty much like sausage with some bone chunks in it. Maybe they can grind it thru a couple times to make the bone chunks smaller, though they really aren't very big. I don't hear much for crunching from any of the dogs.
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Shody Lytle wrote 02/05/2008 10:18 AM Re: Vet has me worried about calcium/phosphorus ra [Re: Sue Kobus ] #179087 - 02/05/2008 10:18 AM
Shody Lytle Webboard User Reg: 06-27-2007 Posts: 547 Loc: Orcutt, California Offline	Or what about crushing the bones up with a hammer or mallett? Would that make your husband feel better? My husband also doesn't like the crunching. He finds it kind of disturbing and can't quite believe it is good for the dog. My dog tends to crunch and gulp some too. But so far, no troubles. A couple of pieces passed once in a while, but easily. Good luck. Shody http://www.pbase.com/shody
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Mike Armstrong wrote 02/05/2008 10:59 AM Re: Vet has me worried about calcium/phosphorus ra [Re: Michelle Berdusco ] #179089 - 02/05/2008 10:59 AM
Mike Armstrong Webboard User Reg: 08-06-2005 Posts: 615 Loc: San Diego, CA Offline	Quote: Michelle Berdusco . . . Premade is better than kibble but still I feel I do not have the quality control I would like. Been feeding raw for years and I agree with advice of the other posters. I recently got a grinder which has made the whole process easier and cheaper. I figure it'll pay for itself in 6 mos or less - a lot sooner if you're paying the price of any of the pre-made raw patties/tubes. It's easy to find whole chickens on sale for around $.50/lb. The grinder will do a couple chickens (you do have to cut it up a little to fit) in a few minutes. Throw in some veggies, some eggs and anything else you want, stick it in zip-locs and you've got 1 - 2 week 's worth of meals in no time. Save money, keep the dog and the hubby happy - you got it all! Mike Suppose you were an idiot. Suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself. -Mark Twain
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