Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Lilley:
Here we go again! Nerves and sharpness are NOT the same thing. . . . . Problem: Sharpness (which originates from defense) puts pressure on nerves because the dog perceives/responds to even weak stimuli... that paper sack blowing accross the lawn for example.

I agree that "nerves & sharpness are not the same things". I agree in part that "sharpness puts pressure on nerves" -- IMO sharpness CAN put pressure on nerves depending on the the dog, the stimulus and the situation but it does not necessarily HAVE to. I disagree that sharpness "originates from defense" -- IMO sharpness is just the speed at which a dog reacts to a stimulus, not the manner in which it responds. The dog's nerve and certain other temperament characteristics determine whether a dog will respond defensively or not to any given stimulus -- not the speed or threshold at which the dog responds. JMO.

Hi Ellen, your definition sounds the same as reflexes to me. When az trooper refers to his dog as sharp, I'll bet he means more than just awareness and reflexes.

I've never seen or read your definition before. Most books, websites etc. I've seen define sharpness as the tendency to "fire up" or react aggressively to without much stimulus.

A dog that "fires up" (barks aggressively)when a a paper sack blows accross the yard is exhibiting sharpness.

Here are some links that discuss the definition of sharpness:




There seems to be some level of agreement regarding aggression and its relationship to sharpness.

Don't know why the links didn't show up before:

Definitions of sharpness:
http://www.caradobe.com/schdobe.html http://www.workingdogs.com/dom1.htm http://www.leerburg.com/terms.htm

Kevin:

Jason said that not me. He can be emailed at …

I on the other hand know that sharpness has nothing to do with nerves. Sorry Jason but I’m finally in Kevin’s good graces again. LOL.

Dave:

Thank you for the translation I had no idea what AZ Trooper was saying. I have learned from experience that you have to read Ellen’s posts carefully before responding. I think what she means by speed is the amount of stimuli needed. A sharp dog needs less stimuli to react. Thus they react faster (speed).

AZ Trooper:

Any dog used for protection work should have a slight sharpness to them.

Hey wait a minute.
Jason said what? Let me post a translation of some of the history of Peter Engles kennel to help clear up what I was saying.

The breed dog "Erica" originated from the Belgian kennel "Des Deux Pettois", which at that time with its breed also only still in the child shoes, but already was to give the blood line up of Erica again. He had seen and practically over night had begun a Rueden from a blood line NBVK to exchange its dogs. Its new dog was fewer "nervously" as he called it, (he actually meant temper), and had apart from a good hardness heavy full grasps. Personally these dogs reminded me of German Shepherd dogs and I too much loved the nevertheless even over-foaming temper of the original Malinois.(((now because of space I will skip down a little))). Strange, the kennel Des deux pettois one of its erfogreichsten throws of the mixture of the two blood lines owes. A Erica daughter(Fury) brought the desired mixture from hardness and temper, which were to be seen later from the inzuchten on G'Vitou and its blood line only very rare with G'Vitou exactly. For this "nervous" dog had exactly the the temper, the speed and reflexes, which we needed in Germany for our subordination and the protection service.
(((maybe that will help clear up what I was trying to say)))

Vince wrote: I have learned from experience that you have to read Ellen’s posts carefully before responding. I think what she means by speed is the amount of stimuli needed. A sharp dog needs less stimuli to react. Thus they react faster (speed).
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Sure Vince but "sharpness" means more than just responding quickly... its how the dog responds. If a dog hears a noise and starts to SALIVATE immediately... is that sharpness?

When used in the protection context, I have never seen any book, journal, or website define it as simply a "quick reaction" without reference to the manner of the response (aggression) as Ellen indicated.

Perhaps if someone could give me any legitimate written reference or citation that defined sharpness differently when used in the protection context--- I could accept that there is a legitimate alternate definition.

Good points. I will let Ellen respond for herself.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Vince P.:
Good points. I will let Ellen respond for herself.

Gee, thanks Vince. Couldn't you tell I was using the old "avoidance" technique <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Let's see -- where to begin. From the top.

I wrote: "IMO sharpness is just the speed at which a dog reacts to a stimulus, not the manner in which it responds."

Dave wrote:

 Quote:

When used in the protection context, I have never seen any book, journal, or website define it as simply a "quick reaction" without reference to the manner of the response (aggression) as Ellen indicated.

I can't disagree with you -- when used in the protection context. Problem is -- I was talking generalities. Sorry! I can't even tell you how I got there except that I seemed to have zeroed in on only one part of az's (who has disappeared into the sunset) question "IS THERE SOMETHING INNATE IN A DOG THAT IS CONTINUALLY ENVIRONMENTALLY AWARE?" rather than the total protection part.

Could have been that I was still under the "influence" of pain-killers after foot surgery the day before. In any case -- Sorry Dave. Sorry Vince. Sorry all other clear-headed folks.

Now ..... may I resume "avoidance"? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

It has been a few days, no doubt, but I have not disappeared into the sunset. I have read all the posts, to this moment regarding my question. It appears that there is a general lack of aggreance on a functional definition for "Sharpness". I do appreciate all the input. I don't know if I would say my dog is sharp ( an Otis grandson); he is quick to react to overt stimuli. I thought Sharpness was best defined as a facet of character that manifested itself in behavior that could be described as "untrusting" ( note; not to be confused with untrustworthy)and very aware of its immediate physical environment in conjunction with a moderate to fast reaction to "intolerable" circumstances ( handler being approached from the rear or too quickly, threatening posture, loud and bousterious vioces). Being that I am NOT a handler for my department and my dog and I volunteer in K9 operations for and at the request of the local city and county departments, I was wondering if the work I have done in conditioning my dog to be "environmentaly aware and quick to react to percieved intollerable actions" would inhibit our sucess as a sport team as these two aforementioned entities are now forming units of their own. Thanks again to all those who responded, I think the lack of a widely accepted defginition of a single term so frequently used makes dog training and dog trainers so intresting.