Re: New to the forum
[Re: Maisha Butler ]
#180663 - 02/14/2008 04:50 AM |
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It's very common with my breed of choice Papillons to be crate trained but not have control of their bowels until they're quite old. I'm on my third papillon housebreaking now and I have come to the conclusion along with the breeders I speak with that this is a function of biology rather than training. Take everything that's in a full sized dog and shrink it to 6lbs and there will be biological consequences. In the case of one of my dogs about 1 year old is when my dog was "housebroken" reliably to the point of being able to make it to the litter box 100% of the time. (Yes my dogs are litter box trained as well as outdoor trained). I find the smaller the papillon the longer it takes to housebreak. My fastest was my papillon bitch who is about 10 lbs and she was well "housebroken" by 6 months. My oldest papillon neutered boy who is now a whopping 5lbs took until a year old. I’ve found this pattern to be true now with three other breeders and about 40 dogs.
Basically laying quietly in a crate up to about 6 months old they can make it about 2-5 hrs instead of a larger dog rule of thumb with is normally 1 hr per month old. It's because of this limited time many many breeders of these guys don't crate train until their dogs are over 6 months old. Until then they paper train or litter box train and the pups are confined to an X pen simply out of mercy for a poor puppy who wasn't let out quite fast enough for what his little bowels can do and was stuck sitting in his own filth. I use a timer when I am home and we're working on housebreaking and I have yet to have this as a serious problem. When it's time for me to sleep that the pup goes out in my garage dog runs so at least I can attempt 6 hours of sleep myself.
We go outside and go potty right after the crating and they come inside. We hop around and do activities for about two hours on a short or drag lead and suddenly sometimes we'll get a spontaneous wee or even more rarely a poo.
Normally full sized dogs search out a spot or look uncomfortable and give you a sign that I gotta go even in early puppy days. With how spontaneous this bathroom behavior is and my dogs knowing this is wrong as normally we do the traditional NO! And to the correct spot. As they get older and these "accidents" happen my dogs get more and more upset about having them. I can't help but feel bad as my dog sulks his way over to the litter box after going on the tile or just can’t make it to the box in time.
House soiling is a serious problem for small breeds and is one of the number one reasons they end up in rescues. My advice is be patient… be patient… and be consistent. And nature’s miracle is a wonderful thing.
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Re: New to the forum
[Re: Maisha Butler ]
#180718 - 02/14/2008 11:09 AM |
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You can have a dog that is well crate trained but not house trained. Just because the dog never uses the bathroom in the crate doesn't mean if you bring him into the house the dog will not attempt to go to the bathroom in the house
Huh? Maybe I'm just dense but I thought the whole point of crate training was to teach the dog that he couldn't use the bathroom on the inside. Can you please explain what you mean. I'm kind of worried because I thought I understood the whole crate training thing and now I'm wondering what further training you must do to house train the dog. I'm a newbie. If the crate is the right size for the dogs (there are dividers, no need to buy crate after crate as the dog grows), they are not likely to soil the place they sleep. But that doesn't mean they know not to soil in the house. That has to be actively taught by taking the pup outside every couple of hours and after eating or drinking.
Crate training is not just for potty training. The dog comes to see the crate as his place for sleeping, and is a good place to put your pup when you go out or when you need a break from puppy antics - and if it's a young pup, it's a good place for them to take their frequent naps during the day.
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Re: New to the forum
[Re: Nora Ferrell ]
#180726 - 02/14/2008 11:28 AM |
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Re: New to the forum
[Re: Melissa Thom ]
#180727 - 02/14/2008 11:35 AM |
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... House soiling is a serious problem for small breeds and is one of the number one reasons they end up in rescues. My advice is be patient… be patient… and be consistent.
Good advice. Patience and being consistent..... and setting the dog up for success with frequent trips outdoors ... it works.
I've trained pre-owned adult and senior small breeds who had never been indoors or who had been forced to use their kennel for a bathroom. I bring this up only because I think it helps give optimism to owners of small breeds going through the challenging first few weeks. It can definitely be done.
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Re: New to the forum
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#181144 - 02/17/2008 06:11 PM |
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All had been going well. As a matter of fact, things had been perfect. Then, today, She pooped in the house. I had her on leash - I never let her off leash. She was in the floor chewing a toy while I was on the bed watching a movie. I kept watching, and perhaps, I was too involved in the movie and didn't notice that she needed to go out. I had taken her out in the past 30 minutes and she peed. When I saw this, I just cleaned it up (my fault) but then she jumped on the bed an peed on it. What gives?
ps She (schipperke) is 6-7 mos, I have had her two weeks, she was crate trained (doesn't go in crate) but not house broken. This is also the second time she jumped on the bed and wee-weed. She did it last Sunday, too, and that is when I started the serious crate/potty training and keeping her tethered to me.
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Re: New to the forum
[Re: Nora Ferrell ]
#181146 - 02/17/2008 06:21 PM |
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She did it last Sunday, too, and that is when I started the serious crate/potty training and keeping her tethered to me.
I kept watching, and perhaps, I was too involved in the movie and didn't notice that she needed to go out. I had taken her out in the past 30 minutes and she peed. When I saw this, I just cleaned it up (my fault) but then she jumped on the bed an peed on it. What gives?
How did a dog tethered to you jump up on the bed and pee?
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Re: New to the forum
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#181147 - 02/17/2008 06:26 PM |
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You didn't ask about the poop part, but it sounds like she's not taken outside often enough.
If you keep a little log somewhere handy, you will soon know her poop schedule with relation to her mealtimes. Those times, then, you can take her out and walk around until the exercise gets the peristalsis action started.
You're doing pretty well, for two weeks! "Up" the number of trips outside, though, and perhaps shorten the tether a bit.... you want the inside potties to stop so the habit stops.... set her up for success with no real opportunities to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Re: New to the forum
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#181148 - 02/17/2008 06:28 PM |
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Sorry for the confusion. While I cleaned up the poop. I hooked her leash to the door knob. There was enough room for her to get up on the bed. I cleaned the poop, then she jumped on the bed (in front of me) and peed before I could scoop her up. The timing between poop and pee was probably 5 minutes or more. But my main question is why to bed?
ps
Probably I should have kept her with me while I went to get paper to clean, but she did the pee in front of me.
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Re: New to the forum
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#181152 - 02/17/2008 06:42 PM |
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Thanks, Connie. Your advice is really helpful. I think I am taking her out enough, usually every 1-2 hours. Earlier I was taking her sometimes every 15-30 minutes. But like I said, where she was already used to a crate, she can hold it a long, long time. Sometimes I will take her out 4 - 5 times before she pees and usually, she doesn't do both until a later trip.
Like I said, the poop accident was probably my fault even tho we had been out no more than 30 minutes before.
But, still, WHY the BED? Very confusing to me.
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Re: New to the forum
[Re: Nora Ferrell ]
#181155 - 02/17/2008 06:58 PM |
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How are you rewarding her potty outside? Treats/toys? Do you deliver ther reward with verbal praise immediately after she potties outside?
How long do you keep her outside if she doesn't go? If she goes but only a little, do you keep her outside or immediately take her in?
Also, what surfaces does she show any special interest in, if any, when she potties in the house? What surface is she on when you take her to potty outside?
I ask because she may have an aversion to certain surfaces. I have noticed with some small dogs they don't like certain surfaces - usually grass or gravel. Try keeping her in one specific area that you know she will/has pottied or switching surfaces.
Does she have a command or any words associated with going potty?
I recommend lengthening her time outside. If she doesn't go right away, play with her. Take a ball or toy with you and keeping her on lead play for a few (5-10) minutes and if she has a command or word for potty, try to encourage her to potty. If she is too riled up keep playing. Physical activity often increases how badly they need to go and so may help to induce her to go while outside. Praise praise praise that outside potty!
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