Oh, I forgot to say We're looking for a GSD as a pet but we would like it to have the temperament that the GS is known for.

Maisha, go meet people. Go to trials,shows, any kind of dog related events. Look up clubs.

Trials and shows in Southern California
http://germanshepherddog.com/events/Club_Events.htm#South_Western

Schutzhund Clubs in Southern California
http://www.southwestschutzhund.com/
http://germanshepherddog.com/clubs/south_western.htm#CA

Edited to add:
If you want the temperament the German Shepherd is "famed for", you are most likely to find it in a dog from working lines. A schutzhund trial is essentially a three-phase temperament test. It generally eliminates the fearful and shy dogs from the gene pool. The couch potatos get the boot too. ;D





Edited by Charlie Snyder (02/26/2008 02:11 PM)
Edit reason: Added a thought

As has been said, price has little to do with it. I actually find breeders that price in the middle of the road to be the most logical. The ones who price high seem to place some unrealistic value on their dogs (generally speaking, I know a few good breeders that charge alot, but the dogs arent neccesarily any better than other breeders I know who charge half the price).

I would look at working line breeders for sure, but talk to them. Ask them questions. If most of what they tell you is sales pitch "our dogs are the best, they can do anything, they'll fit in your house and guard your family, they'll water your plants, do your dishes, are completely fearless, they can be police dogs, service dogs, family pets, kids can pull their tails, they are completely stable" etc etc etc, then walk away.

If they talk about the bloodlines, their experiences with the parents/grandparents of the dogs they are breeding, good reasons why they are breeding these particular dogs, which particular traits as well as dogs on each side of the bloodline they feel they are specifically striving to produce. Whether it is a repeat breeding or not. If so, then what happened to the other puppies. Health checks (hips & elbows), do they offer a health guarantee on the dog. What do they do to socialize the pups. Do they own the sire? Can you visit their training club and watch the sire work? If they paid for a stud, why did they choose that stud? Have they used that stud in other breedigns? Were those breedings successful? How many of the pups from previous breedings went on to be successful working dogs and how many went to pet homes?

The general assumption is that every working litter will have pups that are less driven and perhaps less suitable for actual work, but are sound and stable pups that will make great family pets.

As for the cost. Like has been said, the cost of purchasing the dog is small compared to the cost of owning the dog. One unexpected vet bill and you're paying more than the cost of the dog. Puppies can get into all sorts of trouble. One spill of bad luck and its $1500 on a broken leg. Been there, done that. I know 2 other people that had that adventure too.

Generally you won't find a working line pup ready to go "today". If you do then you lucked out, but most people have to wait a while for the breeding to take place. Then 2 months for the pups to be born, then another 2 months to take the pup home. Most good breeders will have pre-sold all their pups before the breeding even takes place. If there are a bunch of pups on the ground ready to go, especially older pups, you might want to find out why nobody has gotten pups from this breeding. Either the breeder doesnt have any marketing skill, or his breeding isnt all that impressive so not enough people were interested enough to reserve a pup. Not neccesarily a bad thing, especially if looking for a pet, but would certainly make me ask some more questions.

And most importantly. DO NOT BE AFRAID TO WALK AWAY FROM A LITTER. If the litter doesn't speak to you or you dont see a pup that you really click with, don't be afraid to walk away from the litter. Yes, puppies are freakin adorable and its hard to walk away from a litter you've been waiting for, but you don't want to be stuck with a dog you didn't really want either.

And most importantly: Odds are that you will like whichever dog you end up with, so dont stress about it too much. The importance of locating a good breeder is to get yourself the best odds of owning a happy confident pup that doesn't spook from the fireworks on July 4th, doesn't act skittish around strangers, and won't have hip or elbow problems down the road.

Great post Mike! Your post was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks so much! I now know what questions to ask. That was my problem what to look for and what to ask a breeder.

Thanks Charlie for the links. There is actually a club that's close to where I'm live. I'm going to be calling and visiting them real soon!

Just wanted to update. I took everyone's advice and I called a schutzhund club near my home. The woman there gave me great advice. She told me about a breeder but she warned me that she didn't know anything about her but to call. The breeder was also in the area and she had heard about her but knew nothing about what kind of GS she bred. Well, I did. She said her GSs were from the show bloodlines. So that was a quick no in my book. But then she said that some of them were schutzhund titled. Is that possible? I thought to do schutzhund they had to be from working bloodlines. That just seemed like a red flag to me. I don't know. Then she said she gave a two year warranty for hips and elbows and she was charging $800-$1200. Shouldn't she give me a lifetime warranty for hips and elbows or is that unrealistic? Needless to say I crossed her off the list. But if I didn't have the right information who knows?

Under the German breeding system, dogs must have both a show rating and a working title.

The differences between show and working lines arise from the emphasis each group puts on the show ring or trial field.

Depending on what your intentions are for the dog, I am always out to save a dog before purchasing one. why not go and check the local GS or Mel rescue. Cali is peppered with them. Who knows you may unearth a superior dog who bloodline would have gone unnoticed otherwise. Don't knock rescues till you experience them.
If its a competition dog your wanting and anything less then perfect everything wont do? I say buy one from Ed. I happen to like the methods used here. I trust Cindy and I like the natural methods instilled in their breeding and rearing and early stage work.

 Quote: Maisha Butler

Then she said she gave a two year warranty for hips and elbows and she was charging $800-$1200. Shouldn't she give me a lifetime warranty for hips and elbows or is that unrealistic?

You're off to a great start Maisha! It seems daunting, but the only way you'll get a good understanding of what you're looking for is to research a lot of dogs, a lot of breeders, and ask as many questions as you can.

I won't speak to the GSD specific questions in your post (as I'm not a GSD owner) but in relation to your question above: most health guarantees for joint related problems will only span a few years. Given the many owner controlled factors that can effect a dog's development and joint health, yes, a lifetime warranty against hip or elbow problems would just be unrealistic. And how could you prove that your 6 year old dog had hip problems caused by bad breeding, and not over-exercise or injury? A one or 2 year guarantee gets the dog pretty much through it's physical growth and into adulthood, so any really debilitating, early onset dysplasia (which would clearly be genetic) would be caught and covered. Anything after that is really up to the health of the pedigree and your lifelong good care. Did you ask if the sire and dam had OFA ratings for hips/elbows? And at what age they were screened?

~Natalya

I own a showline, and while he is a cool dog, there are alot of problems with most showlines, including mine, although I think I lucked out because he's got minimal problems compared to most showlines i've seen. Yes they can be Schutzhund titled, but the quality of work from a showline is not what it is from a work line. The dogs can be gunshy, skittish, nervous, excessively soft, irrationally fearful, etc etc etc. Not saying all showlines are a nervous wreck, but you will have better odds of finding a sound stable family pet in the working lines than you will the show lines. Not to mention the physical structure. A working line dog will be more agile. Showlines have what is known as a "banana back" or a "roach back", do a google images search for showline german shepherd or something and you will see the back is curved vs. the straighter back from the work lines. Showlines also tend to have more hip problems and their structure limits their agility abilities.

On top of that, a working line dog tends to be more "in tune" with their owner, more willing to please and willing to listen and obey. Their drive makes them easy to teach and motivated. Many show line dogs lack this "will to please", lack the drive to do proper motivational training, lack the focus when they are young, etc.

Like I said, I own one, and he's a great dog, I wouldn't trade him for anything, but I am also realistic about each of my dogs limitations and characteristics

Like I said before, you will be happy with whatever dog you end up with and love them regardless of their quirks, issues and problems. But if you are going to look at purebred breeders, its nice to have all the advantages you can get to avoid unneccesary problems.

If you go the rescue route, picking puppies is hard enough when you know their background. Make sure you bring someone that is experienced with puppies and can evaluate them a little to get some idea of what they might be like. You will never know 100%, but if you start with a nervous wreck of a puppy it has alot of potential to get way worse. That goes for puppies from breeders too actually.