I think what most people need to remember is that Cesar does not "train" dogs. He "rehabilitates" out of control dogs, or dogs with "issues" by using the pack structure mentality. He "trains" people on how to think like a dog. It's right on his website, and is the first thing you hear before an episode starts. "I rehabilitate dogs. I train people."
It's amazing when you watch his show and see how he operates and how the dogs respond. An educating experience. I have his first 2 seasons on DVD, plus a couple of his other DVDs. I also have his 2 books: Cesar's Way and Be the Pack Leader.
For training though Ed's DVDs are great. And his Pack Structure DVD does a great job of explaining the whole concept in depth.

I must say I really like watching Cesar's shows, though it does annoy me that the dogs he works with start listening and behaving almost immediately.
My pup just doesn't react like the ones on tv We have tried Cesar's "shhht" noise and the "finger bite" but usually the noise works for about 2 seconds and the "finger bite" makes him angry.

With that said last night he started to listen to those techniques. So either it was the consistency or he's starting to grow up a bit and actually listen to us properly.

P.S Lynne your dog is beautiful!

Edited by Rhonda Parkin (03/16/2008 08:03 PM)
Edit reason: added p.s

I assume there are as many dog training methods as there are dog trainers. Personally I have learned more from Ed Frawley and his work. So, I have to go for what works for me and mine. That being said, and old man once told me if the only tool that you have in your tool box is a hammer obviously you'll treat everything like a nail. That's why I prefer Ed's DVDs because it's not 30 minute TV segments. Ed's DVDs cover from pup to adult training and everything in between. You can add many tools to your tool box by using Ed's DVDs not to mention the discussion board and all the other tools this site has to offer. Just my personal opinion.

I think maybe they listen well to cesar because he is new, and he isnt "mom" or "dad". he also has a commanding presence and good understanding of canine body language which makes him so effective when combined with being new.

just like naughty kids being angels for other people.

Dont forget the joys of really good editing either, there could be 25 repetitions on the cutting room floor!!

 Quote: melissa blazak

I think what most people need to remember is that Cesar does not "train" dogs. He "rehabilitates" out of control dogs, or dogs with "issues" by using the pack structure mentality. He "trains" people on how to think like a dog.

Very well put; I have never seen him do any 'obedience' work on his shows. It's all about pack structure.
I wish I had more of that calm-assertive demeanor that he projects. (wishing won't get me too far; I'm working on it!)

 Quote: jennifer lee

I think maybe they listen well to cesar because he is new, and he isnt "mom" or "dad". he also has a commanding presence and good understanding of canine body language which makes him so effective when combined with being new.

just like naughty kids being angels for other people.

Dont forget the joys of really good editing either, there could be 25 repetitions on the cutting room floor!!

And they never show everything that he does, either. I think in the episode with Emily the dog-aggressive pit bull, once she started freaking out you could barely see him start to string her up to choke her out, and then it cut to commercial. When the the show came back after the break, she was just getting up from being passed out, lol. We all can imagine the uproar that would've ensued if that was shown on TV.

A side note on Cesar: when interviewed, he said the reason he uses his particular sound is because that's what his mom used with him. It's not a "dog thing". He said to use whatever sound works for your dog.

A loose puppy in the house will always, constantly, get into something he's not supposed to. That may lead to constant corrections and running the chance of breaking his spirit. I want a pup to develop his confidence and personality to the fullest. I don't want to inhibit puppy behavior (curiosity, spunk, etc), but rather use it to build confidence.

So I have reservations on Cesar's method with young puppies. I prefer the tethering method for them, which is something I first learned here from Ed's articles.

 Quote: Sandy Moore

A loose puppy in the house will always, constantly, get into something he's not supposed to. That may lead to constant corrections and running the chance of breaking his spirit. I want a pup to develop his confidence and personality to the fullest. I don't want to inhibit puppy behavior (curiosity, spunk, etc), but rather use it to build confidence.

Sandy, I didn't think about it from that perspective. Makes sense...

You can't show everything in one half-hour segment. I don't know how much time he spends with a family on a consult, but I'm sure that with some of the hard-core cases the viewing public would not want to see some of what he does.
I will tether my next puppy. It sounds like a great idea. Actually, I will do a lot of things different with my next dog. Things have changed in 15 years, and so have I.
As far as the rest of it goes, if people did right by their dogs/puppies from day one, their would be no need for people like Cesar. Meaning (and I am definately no expert here), if people established "rules, boundaries and limitations" and practiced "exercise, discipline and affection" in that order (thanks Cesar) there would be a lot more well adjusted dogs.
Theoretically of course it all sounds rather simple. But everyone's situation is as different as every dog is different. Not all pet owners want to work that hard on their relationship with their animal. And it's very easy to fall in love with a pair of begging eyes.

I realize that Cesar's show is alot of Hollywood. There is alot that is not shown or said. Having said that I think he is awesome. Even if his own pack came from hundreds of dogs, it is still an accomplishment to have the degree of control that he has around his dogs.

My methods are a combination of Ed's and Cesar's. The philosopy just makes sense to me.

I find that I'm constantly having to defend myself from the Pure Positive crowd. They love to jump up and down and shout "Ian Dunbar". Let's think about this for a minute. The clips that you see of Dr. Dunbar are usually of him giving a seminar, not training dogs. The dogs you see him with are always, little "dust mop style" dogs. You don't ever hear about him dealing with serious dogs with serious issues. I love the way that Cesar boasts, "there are Rottweilers here, Pitbulls, German Shepards ...they are all representing!" In other words, his attitude is, come on bring me any breed. I will take reality over hours and hours of theory any day. The PP crowd always wants to point you to a book. I always reply, "never mind the book....let's see what you can do with a dog....you are very well versed in theory...let's see reality."

Many of the Pure Positive trains boast about their numerous Rally Titles. Wow Great!!! But show me a dog that is trained for the real world. In other words, one that will obey under a hundred different real world distractions. Lets remember that AKC Rally is done under somewhat controlled conditions. Let's let a rabbit loose in the ring to make things interesting. The Pure Positive crowd would be going home with their tail between their legs.

If I am totally wrong about this, someone please let me know. I realize that you can accomplish alot with some dogs with only PP. These dogs tend to be obsessed with something like a ball. That isn't the majority of most dogs.

--Dan