Aside from the dog's ability, is what we saw in the video a result of not having enough training in defense? I ask because it looks as if the dog is just playing. There was no "fight" in it that I could see.

Sandy IMO if the necessary drives are present, how to fight and what represents a threat can be trained but the will to engage can not, that must be bred for.

Hi Sandy,

In that situation it was all prey. The suspects were just trying to get away from the dog and did not put any defensive pressure on him. The outer clothing of the suspect caused problems for the dog, that is not unusual for a first time bite.

There is never any guarantee that a dog will bite for real on the first time. In this situation the dog had multiple opportunities. After the first couple of misses you would think the dog would have adjusted, as many do.

At the end of the clip the dog failed to engage a passive subject even though he had an opportunity. Unfortunately, a lot of patrol dogs do that. I can name four or five PSDs off the top of my head that won't bite passive. BCSO has a F&B policy so the bite is a gimme. You cannot hear the handler so it is possible that he called the dog off at the last second and then challenged the suspect. Deputy Hill is a very fair person and has no use of force complaints against him that I know of. It is a very real possibility that is what happened.

But I do have to agree with you. The dog does look as if he's playing. For me, that is not the look I want, even for a new PSD.

Howard

I also like the chi. I spend all day keeping 12-23 small dogs from killing each other in doggy daycamp. In some ways they are worse than the larger dogs. Most large dogs won't bite because they have been taught not to. Most of the small dogs will try to snap before finding out that the day camp people don't put up with that kind of stuff.

When I went to a police dog trial some of the younger dogs weren't as sure of themselves(to me anyway) and didn't seem to have learned to hold on real well. They also weren't as focused. The older dogs were much steadier both in their grip and their attitudes. A lot of them looked like they were playing but the presence of training equipment like bite suits probably had a hand in that.

The problem here is one of selection testing. Unless the dept. is looking for this type of dog (yep, some do).

The grip being full idea is sport people not understanding the depth of what we need in law enforcement work with dogs.
Sure a full grip is nice, but many dogs with full grips on a suit or sleeve make poor police dogs.
Many dogs with 3/4 or half grips make good police dogs. In fact one of my first police dogs had a half grip, except on bad guys where he always always had a full grip.

I have argued this to sport people on many occasions. Grip is nice and should be considered important but not nearly as important as what we used to look at in the old schh as fighting instinct. Give me a dog that enjoys the fight with a 3/4 grip anytime over the dog with a big prey grip. Rarely we get lucky and find both in the same animal......that is a treasure.

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The problem here is one of selection testing. Unless the dept. is looking for this type of dog (yep, some do).

Kevin,

Why would a dept. look for a dog like this?

Along with what Kevin said (which I agree with) I get irritated when the try to describe a "calm" full bite. Calm my butt, I want a slasher, worker. A biter that pushes and if you don't work him, he'll work you.

DFrost

Amen! Physical apprehensions on the street are far from "calm" situations.

 Quote: Jason Sidener

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The problem here is one of selection testing. Unless the dept. is looking for this type of dog (yep, some do).

Kevin,

Why would a dept. look for a dog like this?

Well,
If you do not want to use a dog to physically apprehend anyone really then you might look at a dog that is purely prey driven.

I have assisted several departments whose dogs do not make physical apprehensions of suspects. Just find them and indicate. Not my cup of tea and I warn them there are holes in this approach....big ones. in fact my recommendations to them are that the dogs should be search and rescue dogs not police service dogs.

There are dogs that are also in service who just don't seem to turn out as nice as they ought to. Sometimes this is the handler or the lack of educated decoys, or health or.......other factors.

I have had dogs that handlers just made big pets out of and they weren't too great in the apprehension phase. Hey why fight when you can get all the social needs at home hanging out with the spouse and kids????

Thanks for the response Kevin.