Robert VanCamp Webboard User Reg: 11-28-2001
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That would be a form of compulsion.
Have you tried walking to the sides or behind the dog during the sit instead of walking away to the front? That can keep Fido's attention and the alertness so he won't be so apt to down. Also don't work the two excercises together.
How are you rewarding? With food? Do you hide the treats or show them at this point? Just curious. . .
Barbara, at 6 months my dog was also doing at least a 2minute sit. Perhaps that was too much too soon but he learned so fast I just kept going. One thing the trainers did say was that some dogs physically can't hold a long sit at this age. Their shoulders and shoulder muscles tire easily. It was usually the bigger breed pups that had this problem. Does this answer sound feasible?
Also VanCamp's suggestion of holding the leash and slowly walking around the dog was really good. Some people in my classes did that as well. If their dog was not holding a sit for the specified length of time they were asked to move closer and/or do the "walk around", and drop the time. Your dog sounds like she's doing great!!! Keep up the good work!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
P.S. So glad to hear you've almost kicked the car thing. It's great to be able to take your dog for a ride!
i also experience similiar behavior at times with mine as well. interesting regarding the muscle comment. my dog is pretty tall for his age 27 to top of shoulder.
i dont show the treat, i think if i did he would break the stay and come running?
I agree that what I suggested is compulsion but if the dog understands the sit, wouldn't some compulsion be ok. I'm trying to learn more here also so this is an honest question.
I do not see the need for the extended sit stay. If this is not an exercise for an OB trial your only goal should be to have the dog stay until released. If for some reason you must then you would teach this exercise just like any other off leash exercise (Ecollar, no reward, ect&hellip.
Corrections/long lines are not for me on a 6 mos. old pup. Instead of thinking of ways to make the dog HAVE to stay in the sit, I look at it from the perspective of how do I make this pup WANT to hold the sit? Return frequently and offer intermittent reinforcement (food) and be random in the length of time you require the pup to hold the sit, so he never knows when the jackpot (ball play) will come. He only earns those rewards in the sit, so he WANTS to hold it. Being unpredictable in your rewards and making it worth the pup's effort to hold the sit produce better results for me.
when did the value of food "treats" become higher then the value of praise.?
Are we to assume that a dog at this age has no "drive" for praise and will only work, or "want to", work for food?
Why does it seem every answer I read lately has to have the word positive or treat in it rather then the promotion of better technique?
Originally posted by Kojak: when did the value of food "treats" become higher then the value of praise.?
Totally depends on the dog and its relationship with its handler. If you asked every handler in an obedience class to turn to its dog and "praise" it thru words and/or petting, you would typically see 75% of the dogs either ignore it or even actually avoid it. Most pet handlers do not have a good bond with their dog, so their praise is not valued very highly by the dog.
Why does it seem every answer I read lately has to have the word positive or treat in it rather then the promotion of better technique?
Altho I don't understand the reference to "better technique", the reason positive reinforcement is stressed so much these days is becuz it has such strong benefits. Many people are learning that they enjoy working with a dog that WANTS to work with them, and that, while positive reinforcement has its limitations, you can go a long way using it, particularly with youngsters. Negative reinforcement is a powerful tool, but it definitely has drawbacks that many people prefer to avoid.
Kojak,
That's not what I'm getting out of this. It's a given that dogs/pups like praise. They also like food and play. To me, it's not a moral issue of valuing one thing over another. It's a practical issue of understanding what makes a 6 month old puppy tick, rather than imposing human morality upon him.
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