Quote: debbie fergus

Then I find myself holding the leash, FAR AWAY from my legs, and then he concentrates on getting to my legs.

I just wanted to point out that this method is likely counterproductive. If you're holding a dog back, you are going to increase his drive to go forward and his frustration. I understand why you're doing it...you don't feel like getting chomped on...but I really don't think holding him back is going to do anything except make it worse.

 Quote: steve strom

Do you have plans for him that you don't want to inhibit his biting?

This is a good question...are you planning on doing any work with this dog where you don't want to inhibit biting too much or is this dog a pet and you'd like to extinguish this behavior all together?

And I agree with Lee in suggesting that the pup get more exercise. "A tired puppy is a good puppy!" Exercise doesn't have to mean just physical exercise in the form of a walk. Mental stimulation--indoor and outdoor games with you, interactive toys (like a filled Everlasting Fun Ball, etc.) are great for wearing out pups and high-energy dogs and can be given to pups while tethered.

And since puppies are born wanting to explore their world through play (and their mouths), I think a good offense is the best defense here...by supplying the pup with a variety of interesting things they can mouth and chew on.

I understand with how awful the little alligator's teeth and determination can be. My pup wanted to bite everything...hard...and I had fresh band-aids on every day! But I knew that's what I was getting into when I got the kind of dog that I got.

Have you read this e-book of Ed's, Training Puppies Not to Bite: http://www.leerburg.com/pdf/Training%20Puppies%20Not%20to%20Bite.pdf If you haven't read it, it will offer you some solid info and advice that might help.

Patience is the best tool in your box right now...but if you really feel you have tried everything (and tried everything correctly) and it is still too much for you (and pups like this ARE too much for some people) then I think Al's right--call the breeder and see about returning him while he's still young. Some people actually want to see this sort of thing in a pup, while others would prefer a dog that doesn't seem to have as much prey drive. A good match is good start.

Good luck.

This sounds like an over reaction to me too for what sounds like normal puppy behavior. My puppy was part chainsaw and part burr. My arms and legs were scratched up for about the first 3 months and he put numerous holes and tears in all my pants. I quickly learned not to get near him without a puppy toy to quickly shove in his mouth. Exercise is also absolutely required and so what if he hangs on to your pants with his teeth, you still have to walk and play with him.

It worries me that you are terrified of an 11 week old puppy that's just mouthy. The things you have been trying to deal with the biting aren't good and I bet by now the puppy is getting frustrated with having your fingers shoved down his throat. He is just a baby and doesn't understand why you are hurting him and it sounds like you are getting angry and frustrated with him and won't let him get near you and he's guaranteed to start reacting to that.

If you are in this much trouble when the puppy is this young, you really need to rethink having this puppy or get him into a puppy class where you can learn how to handle him properly immediately.

 Quote: al curbow

Debbie, is GS giant schnauzer? Anyway, if you're this freaked out over an 11 wk old puppy biting then you should get on the horn with the breeder and see about giving the dog back while it's still a puppy. What's "attacking" to you may be ordinary puppy behaviour to others. For some reason this sounds to me like a situation that will go downhill for the pup, hopefully not though,
AL

Well, coming from having a pup that sounds exactly like yours, I agree with Al. I am NOT giving my pup up, and I have worked really hard with redirection, positive reinforcement and all of that and she is MUCH, MUCH better. I tried correction and it made it worse....terribly worse.

You have to take the pup out and do structured exercises, and by this I mean, work on an obedience command with treats.
Go for a short walk or let him run around (with a long line) and be a puppy to burn some energy first and then start teaching him something.

When he goes for your pants, hands or whatever, quietly, calmly without saying anything other than maybe an "uh uh" calmy, hold him out and away from you with the lead. If he throws a fit, stay that way until he calms down, lower the leash and then treat him for having ALL four feet on the ground.

If you do not think that you can do this and it sounds obvious that corrections make it worse (as you are finding out) and you are against positive training, I would send the puppy back and re think what kind of dog you want.

I want to add that when I was talking about holding the pup out and away form you, you need to lift up on the collar and just hold your arm out to the side. Once the pup stops throwing a fit, let him down and walk off, if he follows he gets a "GOOD" and treated. If he comes back after you, repeat the process.
It is different than what Amber is talking about, which I totally agree with too, puppies will go higher into drive when held back.

Some pups need this, but, your puppy is still pretty young and does not know any rules yet. (I missed the age at first)

I think of you use the redirection and rewards correctly, you will see immense changes.

When he is attached to your pant legs on a walk, you need to stop and ignore his behavior, when he lets go, instant reward.

With puppies, ignoring unwanted behaviors and rewarding wanted behaviors works so well, and once the pup catches on, it goes really fast and it is fun to watch them throwing behaviors to get the reward. IMHO, it shows their little brain is working well and they are willing to learn and please.

Hi everyone. I am the breeder, and have been trying to help Debbie with this issue for the past two weeks. The puppy is a German Shepherd. He was actually one of the more mellow pups and got mostly 3's on his apptitude testing.
She is working with a local trainer and I referred her to Ed's DVD's and to this board for help as well.
She has put a lot of money into the puppy and I believe loves him dearly and wants this to work.
I would of course take him back if that is what she wanted to do.
Any suggestions on what I can do as a breeder? Should I try to work with the puppy myself?

Debbie, it concerns me that you're so upset with this puppy. Perhaps you didn't realize what you were getting, but this pup sounds like he may be perfect for someone else. Not all puppies are exactly the same, not all are cuddly and not all are meant to be only pets. If what you wanted was just a pet, not for sport competition, then you may be happier with a puppy that is not intensely prey driven as it's obvious your puppy is.

No matter if you may be successful in getting the (normal) biting behavior under control (and it is normal in a prey driven pup), you will still have a prey driven dog as this is not something that will go away just because you are able to control it. So you have to think about that. He is what he is, it's part of him.

It's not fair to him to have someone angry with him for being what he can't help being. You might want to rethink your choice of a puppy.

Hi Deb - Please check your PM's

 Quote: al curbow

Anyway, if you're this freaked out over an 11 wk old puppy biting then you should get on the horn with the breeder and see about giving the dog back while it's still a puppy. What's "attacking" to you may be ordinary puppy behaviour to others. For some reason this sounds to me like a situation that will go downhill for the pup, hopefully not though,
AL

I agree.

I volunteer at my local no-kill shelter twice a week. The puppies there are nothing short of alligators - because they're puppies first and foremost, they don't get enough exercise, and of course, their prey drive. While on a leash, I re-direct them with a "No" when they try to go for a bite (of my leg, my hand, my arm) and immediately break into a trot to change their focus.

Or I have a toy with me and redirect with that. One or the other always works. These pups I am working with now (pitbulls) are just about 12 weeks old and seem to understand the firm "No". It stops them for just long enough to direct to something that the pups deem just as much fun as chomping on my arm - running through the grass, playing with a leaf, etc. .

Edited by Judy Troiano (04/07/2008 07:20 AM)
Edit reason: clarify/typo

Debbie, when you redirect, you have to make the item that you are redirecting to more interesting than your pant leg, sleeve or skin. Puppies are very attracted to movement; have you tried a rolled up hand towel waggled in front of his nose, or a toy tied to the end of a line that you can move?

You are describing normal (and painful!) puppy behavior; you have to teach the puppy that biting other things is more fun that biting you!

He will outgrow it, but you still have a ways to go to get through the teething phase.

Do you have an area for free play for the pup? Walks are not the greatest for a pup that young. Free play, where he can chase a ball or toy will tire him out and be more satisfying for the pup.

Have you started on marker training? He's not too young to be learning basic commands. This is also a great way to redirect...

Are you using kongs filled with cream cheese or peanut butter at all? This can keep a pup occupied for quite a while, as can a bully stick for him to chew on...

Hang in there. It does get better!

 Quote:

In my opinion, it's not puppy play.

I always chuckle when people say that. I saw a Malinois puppy yesterday, that if anyone saw him play they would think he was a vicious lil dog. Perhaps rabid :p

I second Al Curbow's comments. If you stick it out you could very well have a great dog when he grows up, but if you can't handle the nutty puppy stuff then it might be too much dog for what you were looking to get.

If you are willing to stick it out then you need to understand that dogs are animals, and puppies are born with nothing but wild instincts. Once they mature and begin to understand their role in the world they change night and day.