You just stated that "no one was even paying attention." So how do you know if he was provoked or not? I am not saying that your friend did anything bad but what provokes a dog varies dog to dog and a provocation can be something totally unintentional.

Aleida, from other posts I have read about Rade and the way you describe this situation it still sounds like handler error to me. You had several instances of not controlling him, and it is unfortunate but your living situation with people that didn't respect rules and boundaries with the dog definitely didn't help. He was given opportunity to develop bad habits. Not to mention you just got a new puppy and puppies take a lot of time, it is easy to put an older dog on the backburner, especially one with issues, when you have a new puppy around.

He may have been unstable, but I agree with Robbin that this should be a learning opportunity for you to prevent these issues with your new pup.

I think it is great that Rade went back to the breeder, for his well being. If he can be worked with I think he is in a good place with the breeder to eval and work through any issues he has. I am not trying to pick on you but GSDs are not Rottweilers. Also, you were working with trained dogs. Dogs that had already recieved leadership and groundwork. Working on raising your own pup is very different from handling someone else's trained dogs.

Again, it is good you made the right decision to give him back to the breeder and that the breeder was willing to come and get him. But I suggest perhaps visiting to check on his progress and if he is doing better with different handling to watch and learn to further help you understand what not to do in the future with other dogs.

Jennifer,
I am not trying to be argumentative, but not paying attention and not watching are two different things. I watch him very closely constantly. But it doesnt matter, its over now.

GSD's are not Rottweilers?? If I have any clue what you are trying to say, it would be that GSD's dont have the agressive tendencies of a Rott?!

I practically RAISED the entire litter Ryot was from. Her nephew was given one, and she kept two. She ended up having sugery and was immobile for the entire summer, and her nephew had an emergency and had to have immediate surgery so his pup was at her house as well. I did everything for those dogs. And none developed bad habits.

Blame me, I dont care. I know my stregths weaknesses ect. And everyone around me knew there is a screw loose with that dog. I was in denial, but that last bite out of the blue was the last straw. A k9 handler (for 35+ years, also the head of the Detroit K9 unit for many years) advised me that he had some issues, and to get rid of him. As a matter of fact this bite happened as soon as we got back from training. I saw it as a sign.

Aleida, you have me confused. If you are watching then you should be paying attention, unless your eyes are focused but your brain is not.

And no, I wasn't saying anything about aggression between the breeds. Not sure where you got that from. My point is that Rotts and GSDs are very different dogs, from puppy to adult they are different dogs. You also had not mentioned your involvement in raising Rott pups you simply stated handling and being around already trained adults and trying to compare them to a GSD pup.

Improper handling can cause what people view as unstable behavior. I am always the last to accuse a dog of being unstable by nature/born that way, yes it happens but most cases of "unstable" dogs I have come across were made that way by their handlers/owners.

I don't blame you for sending him back to the breeder, I can totally understand that it was more than you wanted to deal with. BUT I still stand by my post and that hopefully this can be a learning opportunity to prevent issues with your new pup.

By not paying attention, I meant no one was looking at him, motioning towards him ect. My friend made NO movements, just talking (in a normal voice) and out of no where, BAM. His body language remained the same. No stress, no hackles, ears up (as always) ect.

I never mentioned Rotties, RYOT was my previous GSD and all her dogs where GSD's as well.

I stand corrected Aleida, I read Ryot as Rott.

So I take back my comments regarding comparing rotts and GSDs, but still working with someone elses dogs and raising your own pup are very different. Pups or adults, being the primary person from 8 weeks to adult is different from helping socialize and handle someone elses puppies. Good experience being around puppies but not the same as having and raising and handling a high octane dog of your own.

 Quote: aleida cebreco

Jennifer,
I am not trying to be argumentative, but not paying attention and not watching are two different things. I watch him very closely constantly. But it doesnt matter, its over now.

Uh, I don't even know how to start so I will just say it, and I truly am not trying to be argumentative here at all......

You state "no one was even paying attention" but "I watch my dog very closely"....I am confused. The dog lunged out and bit someone, so there had to be some sign from the dog that he was uncomfortable.
Watching a dog, especially a working dog, is knowing the dog's body language down to a whisker flick.

Even the people standing there with you could have been displaying some kind of behavior that set the dog off, and it was just not noticed.

Some of the most stable working dogs I know are still kept away from JQ public, since somebody will always try to pet the "pretty doggy" or they will "stare" at the dog making the dog uncomfortable.....little things like this can end up with devastating consequences.....shoot, I have seen someone walk up to a police car and stick their face right next to the guard in the window....the thing bowed out about three inches when the person wanted to "see the pretty Malinois"....UGH...some people are just dumb when it comes to dogs....(sorry that was a rant and in no way am I saying your friends are dumb..... )

Carol, THERE WERE NO SIGNS!!! NONE!!! No one wsa paying any attention to him, like I mentioned in my previous post, meaning no one made any acknowledgement of his presense. I was watching him but was NOT paying him any attention, that is TWO completely different things. I ALWAYS watch for body language in both people and Rade. I ALWAYS warn not to make sudden moves, threatening gestures, and to stay as nuetral as possible.

If Rade showed any signs of being uncomfortable, I would NOT be labeling him unpredictable. Unpredictable= Not knowing when he would bite next. If there were signs, I would have noticed them and removed him from the situation. How could I do that when no signs were given, HENCE UNPREDICTABLE.

I dont want a dog I have to lock up 24/7, and his issues has NOTHING to do with being a "working dog".

Okay, your obviously the expert when it comes to this so I am sorry I said anything....like I said, it was an opinion and not meant to be offensive. BUT, I do not appreciate being "yelled" at, however if you feel you must.... have at it.

I am so tired of the people that hackle up just because an opinion is posted.....this is a TRAINING DISCUSSION board hence the reason MOST of us can have a decent training discussion to try and work stuff out or to LEARN things....there are other boards to yell at each other on....

Okay okay Aleida,
You know everything one would need to know about agression in dogs. And no dog is too much for you. We get it.
So how old are the other two?
Coming along alright are they?


If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

Why not try to look at this in a different way?? What do you think you did or did not do that might have contributed to this dogs behavior? If you say you were perfect then the game is over and what ever you might have learned or more importantly missed from this experience could manifest itself in your next dog/handler experience. There is something to be learned in everything you do and have done..I am a perfect example because I did just about everything backwards I could have, and it was the stern and accurate guidance of the community in this forum that helped save my dogs life. Her issues were not with people but equally as destructive...listen, reflect and learn, it's so worth it. Good luck to you!