Re: Big Problem
[Re: james bottle ]
#190404 - 04/14/2008 06:42 PM |
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I'd take Molly's advice. As far as a breeder taking the dog back cause he's not neutered, now that's funny! Can you pm me the breeders site?
AL
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Re: Big Problem
[Re: Al Curbow ]
#190406 - 04/14/2008 06:53 PM |
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I too am not a fan of co-ownership. Too many things can go wrong. I did it once with a "show" irish setter and when it became apparent that the dog was not what judges were pointing up in shows I asked to have the dog neutered and show him strictly in obedience. I was told I could not do it and to do so would make the contract null and void and she could come get the dog since I breached it. I ended up sending the dog back to her when I got divorced only to find out that once she got him back she neutered him anyhow! There were many many other "issues" that came about with this particular dog and I learned a very hard lesson that if I want 100% say so on what, where, and how I do things with my dog then I need to be soul owner of it.
Some breeders are easier to talk to and reason with than others, so I'd definitely talk to yours about your concerns on neutering him and perhaps you could include a clause that says you have no intentions on breeding him but need him intact for now and why, or perhaps you could buy the breeder out and remove their name from his papers?
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Re: Big Problem
[Re: Al Curbow ]
#190407 - 04/14/2008 07:01 PM |
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You mentioned that you have a lawyer route if needed. I'd suggest looking into it. It never hurts to know your options, and there is nothing wrong with talking to them and having a course of action all ready planned out. Then I'd go meet in person with the breeder to try and find a reasonable solution. The limited box is there for a reason, so that you can still show your dog in conformation rings etc even if you are not given breeding rights. (you can't show in conformation if your dog is neutered) It is unprofessional for any breeder to with-hold YOUR dog's papers when you leave with the pup. If there is no way to find a resolution with the breeder, then you can take that opportunity to tell your breeder that you have already consulted with a lawyer, and see if there is a resolution then.
Roosevelt said it best, "Speak softly, and carry a big stick"
I would definitely NOT talk to the breeder until I knew what kind of legal options I had, but that is my own personal opinion.
Good Luck!
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Re: Big Problem
[Re: Cameron Feathers ]
#190409 - 04/14/2008 07:18 PM |
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Looked into this at the akc:
http://www.akc.org/contact/answer_center/faq_resolveconflict.cfm
here is one thing that IS on the page about this:
"If properly completed AKC registration papers are not supplied with the dog when it is shipped or delivered to someone else, the person delivering or shipping the dog must furnish the person acquiring the dog with a bill of sale or other signed memorandum giving all of the identifying information listed below. A promise of later identification is not acceptable"
When you bought the dog, did both you AND the breeder sign a contract stating that you would alter the dog? If so, you may have no choice through the AKC, but you might through state law (this is where a lawyer would be a good idea) but, if you both did NOT sign a contract to neuter the dog (only you) then you may have the breeder through AKC. (Both parties have to sign the document for it to be considered valid by the AKC) In any case, you can report the breeder to the AKC for witholding registration info from you after payment was received. That is very clearly NOT allowed for any reason.
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Re: Big Problem
[Re: james bottle ]
#190411 - 04/14/2008 07:32 PM |
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James, a couple of questions.
Have you talked to the breeder at all? Have you told him why you don't want to neuter him at such a young age? Including all the health angles? Such as he buys the dog back with bad hips or elbows. He only stands to lose by insisting on neutering to soon.
Do you ever plan to get the deed done? If so, ask him what the big rush is. If not, what are your plans, because plainly something will have to give.
For my part, to repo a dog that has been paid for already sounds very dicey, but you may want to check the local and state contract laws, as well as the wording of your contract. He many very well be able to deny the registation papers forever after the 8 months pass, but I doubt seriously if he can legally come and take the dog from you.
If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy
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Re: Big Problem
[Re: randy allen ]
#190417 - 04/14/2008 08:28 PM |
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He many very well be able to deny the registation papers forever after the 8 months pass,
actually, he can't deny any registration at all. The breeder can provide evidence to the AKC that he has a valid contract and try to get them to revoke the registration status until the dog is neutered, but cannot hold the registration after the dog is sold or strongarm the buyer into dual ownership. I'm actually wondering if the breeder could even lose his license for this?
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Re: Big Problem
[Re: Cameron Feathers ]
#190419 - 04/14/2008 08:55 PM |
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sorry, about the late reply guys, you guys are great thats why i joined this forum i have learned so much. I have talked to the AKC and they have said if i signed the contract then i have signed a contract. I will check into the seller and buyer signature part because it is only my signature on the contract. Thru talking to others at the Shutzhund Club. The breeder does this type of contract because they do not want to compete against there own dogs. I will show the contract to my lawyer, but dought very much i will go down that long road.
thanks agin everybody
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Re: Big Problem
[Re: james bottle ]
#190423 - 04/14/2008 09:32 PM |
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Huh? Don't want to compete against their own dogs? Do you mean prodigy of your dog, or the dog they sold you? Which by the way, is now your dog.
That a breeder wants to protect his lines is understandable, but to undermine the prospects of direct descendents seems to me to be opposed to his best interest as a breeder.
If my dog isn't learning, then I'm doing something wrong.
Randy
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Re: Big Problem
[Re: randy allen ]
#190427 - 04/14/2008 09:54 PM |
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I believe against my dog, this was told to me by others in the club who have known of this breeder for many years, im still trying to figure this one out.
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Re: Big Problem
[Re: james bottle ]
#190430 - 04/14/2008 10:06 PM |
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Well, my idea on what I would do still remains...
This thought just occurred to me... is it still an option (for you) to demand a refund and look elsewhere for a pup? (I figured I'd ask- I don't know how long you've had the pup for and whether or not you'd consider this)
Whatever the case is, the breeder can't steal your dog away, no matter what you do or don't do. If you don't want to alter the dog, then don't. The best the breeder can do is appeal to the AKC to deny/revoke your registration. But the breeder has to prove a lot of stuff from what I read online. I don't think you actually will need to get involved in a nasty battle.
BTW, you don't need the papers to register - if you know the litter number, or can get it from another pup owner, or if there is litter info online... that and the sire/dam name is what is needed to register online.
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