Sue,

Yes, in the sense that I am introducting light stim at the point of saying the command versus just using it at the correction phase. this is with a puppy who is just getting introduced to the collar versus my adult who was introduced after lots of obedience training and was only taught recall using the collar for correction.

Roni can speak to it better than I can and I hate to say something out of line.

 Quote: Roni Hoff

Jon;
Congrats! You are getting a typical response that I see using this method of training. Isn't it a blast? I do repeat the word 3 times, nick 3 times. Remember, dogs learn thru repetition.
Once you see the understanding in the dog of a command, start on
a variable reward schedule for the treats, but use a release command as a reward also. Lots of joy and play and then back into the position and your primary reinforcer. You get to judge on the understanding, and then remember positions are also a duration exercise so you'll need to work on that also. Let us know how things are going, Happy Training!

Roni,

This is something I am a little confused with. At this point she knows the commands I am using, so do I still do the triple verbal/stim? Doesnt that reinforce her to listen for sitsitsit vs sit?

Next question - if working a stay, do I use the stim on the release or the stay? or both?

thanks.

I use the e collar as an adjunct to help understanding of the word, so, initially the stim is in conjunction with the stim
in a 1,2,3 cadence. Sit, sit sit, tap tap tap, until the word is completely understood under medium level distraction (really quickly). After just a couple of sessions, I am moving to intermittment reward schedule, but also using a release as a reward (always with primary reinforcer)in the begining stages.
I do not use a stay command, don't think stay is a dog term. They should maintain the position until the release, so I repeat the command and then introduce movement. If they do move, then
command sit, sit, sit, tap, tap, tap. Not necessary for the release, dogs get it really quickly, move and lure for the release initially with joy. This is a quick synopsis on my training method. I don't believe in training on the internet, but
wanted to get you on your way. This method creates a happy, driven dog, that wants to train and builds confidence in shy dogs. Let me know how it goes. I would love for you to attend one of my seminars or come to my training center in southern Michigan. Happy Training!!!!!

Thanks Roni...I understand about not being able to teach over the internet.

If you make it to the East Coast, I will be there in a minute! Until then, I will have to keep working at it on my own. I haven't found anyone that uses it in quite this way (and it really seems to work). Most are just using to replace the leash as a correction.

Hi Jon,

Did you see this thread -- Steve is surveying interest for a Roni Hoff seminar in MA.

Seminar in MA thread

Katie

Hi everyone, It takes a little while to understand. Remember do not use them as a punishment tool. It is to help get the dogs attention and I recommand that for the first week to ten days every command should have a stim. The recall will take a little bit and try not to reel the dog in with the leash. The leash is use as a safety line so the dog does not run away. If the dog does get loose the ecollar should not be used, it will only confuse the dog more. Once you get the hang of it you will see how much more fun training and being with your dog is. If people are interested in attending a Roni hoff/petpals seminar in Massachussets please let me know. Thanks

I must admit, I am a little confused between getting attention and correction. I will do a ton more reading on this over the weekend. I had the assumption all stims would be a correction. I can understand how you wouldn't just stim a dog for recall without it knowing what to do. I would think it would scare the heck out of it if you weren't careful in what you were doing and it would put itself in more danger by running scared.
I really like the idea of using it for attention, since that is where my problem lays. I train two of my dogs in agility, and I was starting Hogan also, and there training is only allowed on the flat collar. Would it still work to push the attention a little on the basics of sit, down, and come, with the collar even though I wouldn't use it for equipment training? Does that make sense?