Well, as far as the area being used - it is my fenced backyard which is pretty large. The tangling problem is due to the fact that he immediately bits the leash and goes in circles until he tangles himself. If I rented the Houston Astrodome and had him at center field it would be no different.

I guess where I'm frustrated is that so far every training video and book shows the dog magically on the long lead, with no consideration for how it became acclimated to it. When he has the lead wrapped around him and bunched up in his mouth - what is my correction tool? Perhaps I should also carry a bull whip.

David, along the lines of what Ingrid said, is there anything that your pup is really crazy about to distract him from continuing to bite the lead?
Like a tug or ball on a string, etc.? Or chasing a ball?
If he begins to associate being on the long line with doing fun stuff, he will acclimate to the long line and learn to ignore it.
Keep it coiled up to a short length (and in your hands) and do some fun stuff w/ him. Gradually increase the length but still keep it in your hands so that he can't tangle himself so easily. Keep him distracted with something fun to do...
Work in brief sessions every day a couple of times a day and he will get it eventually!

David,
What happens when you hold on to the other end of the drag lead?
And what kind of material are you using for the long lead? Some types become tangled easier than others.

Patience is the key for puppies.
Randy

 Quote: david crout

I guess where I'm frustrated is that so far every training video and book shows the dog magically on the long lead, with no consideration for how it became acclimated to it. When he has the lead wrapped around him and bunched up in his mouth - what is my correction tool? Perhaps I should also carry a bull whip.

Then he's the same on a leash, but with less material to "work" with?

David, perhaps you were kidding, but skip the bull whip.

You said he doesn't bite the 6 foot leash. So start him out on the long line at a 6 foot length or so. The rest of the line is in your hand. Praise him and treat him for good leash behavior when you do this.

Next day, let the long line out another 2 feet or so, again praising and treating. Continue this way, not letting the line out more than 2 or 3 feet at a time each consecutive day. If he regresses and starts to bite the line, go back to the length that he had no problems with and start again from there for a couple of days. Then start again to let the line out again, each day a couple of feet longer.

If you want him to love the line, you have to love the line. Anticipation on your part of problems will transfer onto your pup and he will act accordingly. Keep it upbeat and happy.

All good suggestions. I guess I first need to work on my own patience. I did order a new lead from Leerburg, the Beavis one. I couldn't tell if it has a hand loop in it, but it seems like a better quality and more tangle-proof than the cheap one I got a PetSmart.

As for Connie's question about the short leash, he is 97% good on a 6 ft. if we're going for a walk, but in the back yard he is the same. Most of our time in the back yard is off leash "play" and so he resists being on a leash. I have (and still do) used what another trainer calls "the post drill", where you sand firm and still and hold the leash firmly... but do not tug back. This is like the dog being tied to a post, and pretty soon they give up the tugging because they see it is futile. Also, you're not engaging them or making a tug of war game out of it. That actually works, but is harder with a long lead.

I'll have to try the advice of holding most of the lean in hand and letting it out a bit at a time.

I also ordered the Basic Obedience DVD... so I can catch up on Ed's methods from the beginning.

Sandy - I was indeed kidding about the bull whip. I like your advice about the gradual increase in length and will give that a try!

I just received Leerburg's basic obedience DVD and the 30 ft. lead I ordered. The long lead is better quality than the one I have, and while I'm sure he'll chew at it, hopefully it won't get so tangled.

 Quote: David Crout

I just received Leerburg's basic obedience DVD and the 30 ft. lead I ordered. The long lead is better quality than the one I have, and while I'm sure he'll chew at it, hopefully it won't get so tangled.

Have you read the marker training article, too?

That LB line -- that's the only one I use now; I even ordered a second one just in case, and I use a piece of an old one as a tether and another piece as a drag lead.

I hope that you'll update.

Today I put the new LB 30' lead on Kuno and off we went into the yard. He is still obnoxious with it, and bites and chews it. It's really hard to get focus with him to use the lead. He will still chase balls and frisbees but as soon as I try to use the lead for any recall trainig, etc. he goes back to "leash tug of war".

This is the part I am frustrated by. A pop correction is impossible when he has the lead in his mouth - although I still do it and hope I don't yank out a tooth. But his energy and aggression level with the lead only increases.

This is why I think trying to use it in conjunction with the ecollar will be hard. I'll spend all my time shocking him for mouthing the lead!