Connie Sutherland wrote 05/10/2008 03:12 PM Re: Technique in Avoidance vs. Drive [Re: Jesse Haifley ] #194235 - 05/10/2008 03:12 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	(( But that doesn't give any tools to use, in the moment, to deal with the dangerous behavior when it occurs by surprise. )) The tool that I'd choose is a line.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 05/10/2008 03:21 PM Re: Technique in Avoidance vs. Drive [Re: Mike J Schoonbrood ] #194237 - 05/10/2008 03:21 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Mike J Schoonbrood A leash is always a good tool. Keeps the dog from running away A dog that isn't reliable should be on lead and unable to get themselves into the situation that requires the high-stim. I wish I had said that. Mike posted while I was typing.
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Carol Boche wrote 05/10/2008 03:27 PM Re: Technique in Avoidance vs. Drive [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #194238 - 05/10/2008 03:27 PM
Carol Boche Webboard User Reg: 10-30-2005 Posts: 4531 Loc: South Dakota, USA Offline	Quote: Connie Sutherland  Quote: Mike J Schoonbrood A leash is always a good tool. Keeps the dog from running away A dog that isn't reliable should be on lead and unable to get themselves into the situation that requires the high-stim. I wish I had said that. Me too. Until The Tale of the Lioness is told, the Story will Always Glorfy the Hunter
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Cameron Feathers wrote 05/10/2008 03:29 PM Re: Technique in Avoidance vs. Drive [Re: Jesse Haifley ] #194239 - 05/10/2008 03:29 PM
Cameron Feathers Webboard User Reg: 03-11-2008 Posts: 703 Loc: VA Offline	Quote: Jesse Haifley What should one do if their otherwise well-trained dog gets spooked while off-leash and bolts? That is, when the dog is motivated by some sort of fear rather than by prey drive, aggression, etc. The dog is running away from something (maybe even the handler), rather than running towards something. Until you find out what is causing the dog to be afraid don't take it off leash. When a flower doesn't bloom, you fix the environment in which it grows, not the flower.
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Jesse Haifley wrote 05/10/2008 03:39 PM Re: Technique in Avoidance vs. Drive [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #194241 - 05/10/2008 03:39 PM
Jesse Haifley Webboard User Reg: 05-06-2008 Posts: 7 Loc: Madison, Wisconsin Offline	Connie, Thanks for your interest. Clearly, if there wasn't handler error, I wouldn't have written in. And, what Lily was bolting from was a surprise in the moment, but not a mystery now - I discussed that earlier. But, at the end of the day, I've tried to boil the issue down to a few specific questions. Just one, even. It's been disappointing that it remains unanswered. Maybe most posters to the board are 100% confident that their dog would never bolt when off leash, in which case my question has no general relevance. That's OK ... I just thought I'd give it a try. -Jesse
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Connie Sutherland wrote 05/10/2008 03:42 PM Re: Technique in Avoidance vs. Drive [Re: Jesse Haifley ] #194242 - 05/10/2008 03:42 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Jesse Haifley ... But, at the end of the day, I've tried to boil the issue down to a few specific questions. Just one, even. It's been disappointing that it remains unanswered. Sorry, then.... I missed it. What is that one question?
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Connie Sutherland wrote 05/10/2008 03:43 PM Re: Technique in Avoidance vs. Drive [Re: Cameron Feathers ] #194243 - 05/10/2008 03:43 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Cameron Feathers  Quote: Jesse Haifley What should one do if their otherwise well-trained dog gets spooked while off-leash and bolts? That is, when the dog is motivated by some sort of fear rather than by prey drive, aggression, etc. The dog is running away from something (maybe even the handler), rather than running towards something. Until you find out what is causing the dog to be afraid don't take it off leash. Jesse, I thought that this was the question, and I thought that this was the answer....
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Connie Sutherland wrote 05/10/2008 03:46 PM Re: Technique in Avoidance vs. Drive [Re: Jesse Haifley ] #194244 - 05/10/2008 03:46 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Jesse Haifley Maybe most posters to the board are 100% confident that their dog would never bolt when off leash, in which case my question has no general relevance. Not me. But that's not the same thing as having a dog who does bolt and whose trigger I have within my power to discover (and whose trigger may be me). My dogs has to NOT bolt before I take off the leash.
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Carol Boche wrote 05/10/2008 03:47 PM Re: Technique in Avoidance vs. Drive [Re: Jesse Haifley ] #194245 - 05/10/2008 03:47 PM
Carol Boche Webboard User Reg: 10-30-2005 Posts: 4531 Loc: South Dakota, USA Offline	Quote: Jesse Haifley I've put up a lot of issues and questions here, but if I could end up with only one clear answer out of this thread, this is what I'd ask for: What should one do if their otherwise well-trained dog gets spooked while off-leash and bolts? Is there an answer to this question, in general? Here was the question you chose to have answered and in all actuality, I think Mike said it best. Until The Tale of the Lioness is told, the Story will Always Glorfy the Hunter
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Cameron Feathers wrote 05/10/2008 03:55 PM Re: Technique in Avoidance vs. Drive [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #194246 - 05/10/2008 03:55 PM
Cameron Feathers Webboard User Reg: 03-11-2008 Posts: 703 Loc: VA Offline	Sorry if my response came across as abrupt - I didn't want to confuse. My dog may be scared by something while off leash - construction workers throw something from the roof into a truck below, etc, and she may very well spin to look or bolt a step or two forward. It's rare, but on occasion it does happen (a lot of construction here right now). That is not the same as what you described. She has never gone more that two or so steps forward when startled by a loud noise behind her. A dog running as far away as you described isn't planning on stopping! Even with the one or two steps that my dog took, I went back to leash work while in the construction area to desensitize her to the sudden noise in a controlled manner. Even though she stopped herself and returned to my side when it happened! You have to make the situation be controllable or it will only get worse. When a flower doesn't bloom, you fix the environment in which it grows, not the flower.
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