Lori,

Just thought I'd mention that my Derm vet required my dog be off all supplements and antihistimines for 1 week prior to skin testing. Different vets may have different requirements but one week off the meds was not as bad as I feared and my dog was in really bad shape at the time.

I am SO glad we went the skin testing route. It's terrible watching your dog eat themselves up, it's terrible trying to guess what the culprit is (or isn't), and it was such a relief to talk to a specialist and get answers. This stuff is complicated and I think "regular" DVMs do their clients a huge disservice by not sending them to a skin "pro".

I'll also mention that my dog is raw-fed and this was not an issue with my derm vet...he and I had more important topics to discuss than how I fed my dog.

Hi Lori,

Has scaroptic mange been ruled out yet? His condition sounds similar to what my dog had last year, and it turned out to be sarcoptic mange. You can try the pinnal pedal response. It is better at diagnosing scabies than a skin scrape. Sarcoptic mange is hard to catch on a scrape, but about 80% of dogs that are infected will show the pinnal pedal response. (although mine didn't, we just treated him anyway) It's worth a shot. For your pups sake, I hope it is scabies. They are much eaiser to treat than allergies.

Here is a link that shows how to do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2SJHr896CI&feature=related


Good Luck,

Tracy

 Quote: sarah morris

I am SO glad we went the skin testing route. It's terrible watching your dog eat themselves up, it's terrible trying to guess what the culprit is (or isn't), and it was such a relief to talk to a specialist and get answers. This stuff is complicated and I think "regular" DVMs do their clients a huge disservice by not sending them to a skin "pro".

I think that you and I are two of the maybe 4 or 5 people on the board who have gone the skin-test route.

My experience was much like yours.

I ended up with desensitizing injections (by the way, you can do them yourself; the vet shows you how and it's easy) and removing two bushes in the yard, as well as keeping the house closed up during the time of year when one of her worst plants bloomed.

The point was the information.

We had gone with the blood test first (this was years ago and I knew very little), and I was very surprised when we did the skin test that they were extremely dissimilar results. Also that none of the foods shown to be allergens on the blood test (as I said, I knew nothing then) ended up actually being allergens to her.

The food issues were easily cleared up with the elimination diet (she was allergic to beef) and a fresh raw diet, and the environmental allergies were managed quite well with the combo of eliminating certain allergens from her vicinity and the desensitizing injections, which went on for months, as I recall, tapering off gradually.

I was angry then and still am, a little, at the vet who never mentioned derm vets or how relatively useless the blood tests were or elimination diets.

I was relieved to the point of a big weight of anxiety lifted when I finally went to a derm vet with lots of allergy experience.

I would do everything mentioned on this thread, and see if the allergies could be managed, and then call a derm vet and find out about the length of time required to be off antihistamines, etc., in case you decide to go that (admittedly costly) route.

He's been getting Grizzly Salmon oil and Vit E, A, C for months now - first thing I tried! He gets a combo probiotic/enzyme too. But I don't give him yogurt at all. I read one of Mike's posts on that a little while back and it sounded like you have to give them a ton of yogurt to get enough cultures - what's the instruction on that for a 76 lb dog? and are you looking for allergic reaction trouble with dairy?

Oh, I forgot the journal question - yes, absolutely I have been keeping a log for the last 4 months or so. There is really no pattern or identifiable signs here - which really leads me to believe it's inhalant/environment. The only thing that does seem to make it a little worse is when we have a high that causes warmer weather with wind and we all sneeze more - hayfever in us, itching in the dog. But he'll have good days and bad days mixed together that make no sense!

 Quote: Lori Hall

He's been getting Grizzly Salmon oil and Vit E, A, C for months now - first thing I tried! He gets a combo probiotic/enzyme too. But I don't give him yogurt at all. I read one of Mike's posts on that a little while back and it sounded like you have to give them a ton of yogurt to get enough cultures - what's the instruction on that for a 76 lb dog? and are you looking for allergic reaction trouble with dairy?

No, I wasn't looking for allergic dairy reactions, although dairy is one of the big 5.

I've had such good experience with raw diet and so few true food allergies that I don't think about it a lot after the elimination diet, switching to all raw, and making sure I give 1000 mg fish oil per 10 pounds of dog and the Vitamin E based on the dog's size (200 IU or 400 IU, generally).

As far as digestion problems with dairy, I have encountered that only with un-fermented dairy (milk, cottage cheese, etc.). Not saying it can't happen, of course....

Anyway, yes, I am giving about 1/3 cup a day to the allergic dog (he's only 28 pounds) and maybe 1/4 cup to the non-allergic small one and 1/3 cup to the non-allergic big one.

Yogurt is nice in that it doesn't screw up the calcium-phosphorous ratio even if you give 25% of the diet in the form of yogurt (which I don't).

 Quote: Lori Hall

He's been getting Grizzly Salmon oil and Vit E, A, C for months now - first thing I tried! He gets a combo probiotic/enzyme too. But I don't give him yogurt at all. I read one of Mike's posts on that a little while back and it sounded like you have to give them a ton of yogurt to get enough cultures - what's the instruction on that for a 76 lb dog? and are you looking for allergic reaction trouble with dairy?

Why Vitamin A?

You recommended I read the Allergy Solution book by Messonnier. I did do that and he suggests trying a combo of E, A and Selenium. I already was giving E, so I added A and Selenium about a month ago or so (which is such a pain to have to dole out all these supplements!)and I haven't noticed any difference at all. He has you start with a pretty high dose for the first 2 months - i.e. 30,000 IU for A, 2,400 IU for E. I'm not doing that much - maybe 1/2 of that. But I may not keep that up. I think Grizzly (per bottle instruction dose), E and C are enough!

So if Kasey is 75 lb, I would have to give him about 1 c. a day of yogurt, right? Would you work up to that, or just start it? and the big question is, I suppose I need to get the expensive kind at some place like Whole Foods, right? Can you give them human probiotics in pill form, or is yogurt better?

I think you are probably right about the Omega 3s, E, and C.

Yes, you can give probiotics in capsules, although I'd look first at outside testing. ConsumerLab found a lot of BS on the labels on some probiotics.

I buy the yogurt by the quart, and no, it's not necessarily expensive. I get Cascade (cheap) and Nancy's (expensive) because they both have many live active cultures.

Whichever form of probiotics you give, you want to give it first thing in the day, when the stomach acid production is low, in order to get as many of the bugs past the stomach as possible.

When you buy it, all you need to read on the label are (1) no sweeteners, including natural ones; (2) no flavorings (including vanilla); and (3) live (might say "active") cultures.

Stuff that's heat-treated after culturing is basically a dairy dessert. It's generally the sweetened and flavored type.


Yes, I would work up to it.

Well, most of this isn't new info to me. I know I'm going to have to go the derm vet route. We do have pet insurance that will help cover some of it - I called and asked. I am so tired of trying to figure it out! I got the referral today - the derm vet is about a 45 minute one way trip that of course is involving lots of traffic! I can't wait! I'll call them and see how long you have to be off meds before they can test - my vet said you even have to stop the salmon oil for some weeks before because of it's anti-inflammation properties. I hate this stuff!!

Thanks for listening to me gripe and for the advice!
Lori