Ed has been pushing Mondio ring over Schutzhund claiming it is more fun sport for the dog and the handler. I watched several Mondeo ring videos and I just don't get it -- perhaps someone can clarify the logic behind it for me. First of all the Mondeo protection routines -- why are the dogs trained to bite the leg instead of the arm/sleeve? It would seem that in a real world protection, dog attacking the arm would be more effective. The routine of the dog sticking its head between helper's legs at the crutch area makes even less sense to me. How does this supposed to help the dog to control the helper? Wouldn't the dog be exposed to more risk by the subject it supposed to control?
The two areas that I understand are the object guarding and food refusal. I believe that Schutzhung also has object guarding titles, but I have not seen any trials that had them (not in the U.S. at least). Food refusal is a good training with any dog, and I train my Giant Schnauzer not to take treats from strangers (this is not too hard with him, since he is naturally suspecious of strangers anyway). On the other hand, Mondio does not have tracking -- big deficiency in my opinion, any good working dog should have some basic tracking skills...
Also, it seems that the dominant breed in Modio are Malinois. Why? Does this breed has better suited character for the sport, or it is just because the sport originated in Belguim?

So,if you Mondio lovers care to provide some insight, I would be interested to hear it, but until I am convinced otherwise, Shutzhund is the most complete working dog sport from my perspective.

Thanks!

Not a mondio trainer but belgian Ring

I'll try to awnser your questions

First: legbite or armbite. AN ancient discussion over what is the more effective. It comes down to preferences. Why do lots of mondio dogs go for the leg. Basicaly they are trained to go for an exposed area. Whereas a schtz dog will search for the right arm.
Secondly: And the dog between the legs is a sports thing to avoid a decoy to take a distance befor the dog can get a bite

Thirth: Searching is rudimental in ringsports such as br fr and mondio true. I agree that this can be made more difficult

Where do ringsports such as BR and mondio differ from Schtz is:
a: that it isn't a fixed routine but a fixed set of exercises done in a different way. Which test the dog to its fullest
b: The dog has a more realistic figure in front of him instead of a sleeve.

Why malinois? I only speak for BR here; except very few exceptions no other dog than malinois is capable of competing at a sufficient level in this sport. Why? The malinois is a dog that has been bred and selected for over a century as the ultimate working dog. Character, weight strength and agility are combined in an ultimate dog. Bigger and you loe in agility and longlivity, smaller and you lose in strength...

Hope this helps a little

Greetings

Johan

Thanks Johan. I agree regarding more realistic bites -- for a dog to bite a decoy in a bite suite instead of just a sleeve. My problem with my dog in Schutzhund is that from time to time he is trying to go for an exposed area -- he is just too smart -- but I have to discipline him, of course, which shuts his drive a bit. I still don't get the between the legs thing -- you guys need to get rid of this -- not trying to offend anyone, but it just looks a little strange and silly to me.

Regarding a breed. Have you seen Riesenschnauzers compete in a ring sport? My Schnauzer is about 37.7 kg of pure muscle. He is extremely athletic dog capable of high speeds and jumps (he can chaise down a white tail deer). At the same time he is extremely strong and can take down a man with one jump. Strong pray drive and at the same time strong defensive instinct. Very good in tracking -- I am using him for Search & Rescue volunteer work -- he can follow a track several hours old for over 5 km. Sounds like a perfect working dog? With their docked tails and cropped ears (not allowed in Europe anymore), they are also very good looking dogs as well. We would be great in Schutzhund if not for him just not liking biting a sleeve that much from whatever reason -- he seem to prefer to nock down the decoy!

Hello

2 things

The between the legs thing is nothing i train our dogs walk( bark ) befor the decoy walking backwards while barking 5 inches from his private parts.

I don't say that individual dogs can compete at these sports i can only speek for the sport i know (eg BR) no other breed as such is suitable to survive training
As for yur dog who is 37.7 kg which is 7 kg mmore than an avarage mal will probably get problems with the decent of the palisade due to his weight this doesn't change the fact that the dog may be perfect as such

greetings

johan

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First of all the Mondeo protection routines -- why are the dogs trained to bite the leg instead of the arm/sleeve?

Availability. Legs tend to stay-put more than arms.

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It would seem that in a real world protection, dog attacking the arm would be more effective.

It would not be difficult to emphasize upper-body focus. But, again, this has nothing to do with the real world.

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The routine of the dog sticking its head between helper's legs at the crutch area makes even less sense to me. How does this supposed to help the dog to control the helper? Wouldn't the dog be exposed to more risk by the subject it supposed to control?

That's one way to do it. There are other ways. The bottom line is not allowing the decoy escape. It's an easy area to train since there's an objective physical target with which to maintain contact. And there is no risk to the dog, because it's a sport and the decoy has rules to follow.

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The two areas that I understand are the object guarding and food refusal.

These are shaped behaviors. Again, it's a sport. It has nothing to do with whether or not he'll accept a treat from a vet tech, or literally guard your bicycle as you go into a store.

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Also, it seems that the dominant breed in Modio are Malinois. Why? Does this breed has better suited character for the sport?

Yes. I am undertaking the Mondio exercises with my GSD, and I wouldn't subject him to the same degree of jumping which would be neccesary beyond Mondio 1.

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My Schnauzer is about 37.7 kg of pure muscle. He is extremely athletic dog capable of high speeds and jumps (he can chaise down a white tail deer). At the same time he is extremely strong and can take down a man with one jump. Strong pray drive and at the same time strong defensive instinct.

There are some very general temperment characteristics to consider, i.e. how well the dog can alternative between containing and expressing drive. You can have all the uninhibited prey drive in the world, but the sport requires that it be strictly contained (for significant periods of time under distraction or provocation) until you give the green light, at which point he's still gotta be able to bring it.

 Quote: Steven Lepic

These are shaped behaviors. Again, it's a sport. It has nothing to do with whether or not he'll accept a treat from a vet tech, or literally guard your bicycle as you go into a store.

In my trainingbook these are 2 of the 3 excercises he has to do in real life.

my dog will starve himself for a week or two befor accepting something from a stranger and he'll gaurd everything if ordered

The thirth one being defence of handler
( and this one he does in real life excelent )
Greetings

Johan

You have much more faith in your dog, than I do mine.

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my dog will starve himself for a week or two befor accepting something from a stranger

Hypothetical:

Dog is out in back yard. You're not around. Stranger tosses something over the fence.

Dog will literally starve himself?

I have my doubts.

Practical

Late september on a jot sunny day
Neighbour butchers a cow. Phones at 10 am and asks if he may trow the head over the wall with the dog. I give the Ok

At 7 pm i arrive at home to find the head in his kennel, with a black circle of the sweat of his paws around it, untouched

No doubts there

i kan even trow an item to retrieve on some meat he wont take the meat

Greetings

Johan

 Quote: Johan Engelen

Practical

Late september on a jot sunny day
Neighbour butchers a cow. Phones at 10 am and asks if he may trow the head over the wall with the dog. I give the Ok

At 7 pm i arrive at home to find the head in his kennel, with a black circle of the sweat of his paws around it, untouched

No doubts there

i kan even trow an item to retrieve on some meat he wont take the meat

Greetings

Johan

Total nonsense.



Your Puppy was waiting for your neighbor to throw the rest of the cow over.