oh, don't worry, i LOVE luc. i get accused of favouring him....i don't....actually, i get accused of favouring all the dogs, which i figure means i'm doing good at spreading the love around. but luc is my special boy, my heart, i could get embarrassingly mushy about him but i won't. i adore luc

you're right - i've never been able to figure out nature vs. nuture with him, and in the end, it probably doesn't matter. he is a great runner (and i got cleared to start running and hiking again! whoo!) and hiker, and i've made sure he knows it, and he gets a lot of satisfaction from them b/c he's doing something good, and he's proud (okay, i may be an anthromorphic dog owner, but i think he is).

heh re: short bus. it's possible for sure, but i guess i worry that maybe i don't challenge him enough b/c i figure he is just not as smart as teagan. but i was thinking, from watching how he follows neb and copies him, that maybe it's also just that what works for teagan doesn't work for luc, with respect to training methodology.

he does like treats - i ended up teaching him not using treats a lot, but praise, b/c when i adopted him, for the week and a half before he came home, his foster home tried to step up training and gave him treats non-stop, even if he didn't do anything. he kept on trying to eat hands for a couple of months. i've incorporated treats (randomly) back into our training, even if it's with stuff he's already pretty solid on.

 Quote: Alyssa Myracle

If he doesn't show much interest in toys, that's an even bigger argument for the Buster cube.
The enticing smell of food will eventually lure him. You may have to skip a meal or two, but if that's what it takes to teach him how to enjoy a toy, it is definitely worth it in the end.

i should try that. i tried him with peanut butter in a kong when i first got him, and he'd just lick the outside - and he LOVES peanut butter (follows me around, will do any command for it), but it was like 'oh that stuff is inside'. i haven't fasted him before though....

 Quote: jennifer mullen

i ended up teaching him not using treats a lot, but praise, b/c when i adopted him, for the week and a half before he came home, his foster home tried to step up training and gave him treats non-stop, even if he didn't do anything. he kept on trying to eat hands for a couple of months. i've incorporated treats (randomly) back into our training, even if it's with stuff he's already pretty solid on.

You can completely change this.

Start a little session of marker training before dinner; you'll see how training treats should work.

It's so much easier when you are starting marker work (IMO) to use food, because of the easy-and-fast thing. I want the marker to be followed quickly (at first) by the tangible reward to get that timing thing going. I want the marker to be clearly associated with "good stuff."

The marker itself will be what the dog strives to elicit!

P.S. "Random" tangible rewards -- that does come later.

he's better now, but i also stopped using food w/him for....6 months? a long time. when i reincorporated it, i'd already taught him that he had to sit or down to be given his dinner, so he'd learnt some measure of restraint around food.

definitely though i can see how it would be so good to use w/marker training. i'm going to use it tonight when i start teaching him the target. i can't wait to go home and try it!

 Quote: Jennifer Mullen

... so he'd learnt some measure of restraint around food.

definitely though i can see how it would be so good to use w/marker training. i'm going to use it tonight when i start teaching him the target. i can't wait to go home and try it!

Food drive is a wonderful thing, let me tell you.

Consider it a gift from the training gods.

If he is too psyched around food, then you can have him not-really-hungry when you are marker training. You know your dog.

just a quick update....we had a great time!

i picked a rubber bone (it floats, is a nice shape, and will be good to bring w/us backpacking) as luc's target, and so far, so good! he's doing a good job of targeting it and is obviously having a great time (of course, b/c he knows he's doing well, and that always excites him).

i did, since he was doing so well, COVER the bone in peanut butter before his dinner time - he mostly licked it, but he did pick it up and chew it a tiny little bit! which i know isn't what you're going for w/your target object, so i didn't reward it w/a treat (like karen pryor lays out), but secretly inside i did a HUGE dance! (ETA - i think the targeting actually helped have him pick it up in his mouth, b/c he knows there's something about this bone....he was more curious about it, after doing the targeting work. i tested it w/other toys, and nothing, but it's like we're building a relationship (so to speak) with that bone.)

now i'm just looking for the book in stores....so far, no luck, so i may order it online.