OK I'm going to step in here against my better judgement. The APBT has been bred as a fighting dog. There are a few different opinions these days but the original meaning and the most common current meaning for the words game and gameness is to describe traits viewed as favorable for fighting.

The level of dog aggression seen in any bully type breed depends on the lines first and the experiences second. Just as we all know GSDs that are not SchH or "protection" dogs so there are labs that don't retrieve and pits that are not dog aggressive.

The correct temperament of an APBT depends on who you talk to. While I am very opposed to dog fighting, the people responsible for creating and maintaining the breed were "old dogmen" and their yards were full of fighting dogs.

Just as any other trait a dog has naturally, the control of dog aggression in any dog no matter the breed, is a training and handling issue. The level and extent of dog aggression can vary in any dog of any breed but the APBT and certain other breeds can have a higher instance of dog aggression because genetics come into play. APBTs are STILL being bred for fighting, and while that doesn't mean they are bad dogs, there is training required to work through problems as they arise.

Anyone who has a bully breed or a pit needs to realize that if the history and lines and not known they need to pay close attention to the dog and watch for signs because dog aggression IS STILL being bred into current stock.

ANY dog can be dog aggressive. ANY dog can get into a fight. SO true. But certain breeds are more likely to be dog aggressive depending on the lines of the dog. It is *stupid* to assume that a dog of a breed that originated as and is still bred to be a fighting a dog will not or should not be dog aggressive. Never underestimate the possibility for a fight, no matter the breed, age, or gender of your dog.

Jennifer is correct in her posts.

 Quote: Jennifer

If the owner realizes that she's working with a dog who by breeding and nature will have a tendency towards dog aggression, and is willing and able to deal with that, then I believe it absolutely should be controllable. If not, then it will never be. The worst people for this breed are not the thugs that put spiked collars on their dogs... It is those that refuse to acknowledge the dog's nature, and expect them to be safe with very little work or effort. I don't need to give it any more thought than that. I love this breed, but I just don't think people should be *SURPRISED* when dog aggression shows up. That of course is a general statement, not necessarily directed to the original poster.

I gotta agree with that. It is like people who are shocked or complain that a GSD or Mal pup is hyperactive or biting their, well, everything!

Not all APBT are DA, but many are, certainly both that I had, and it can be controlled. Not bad thing if accepted/expected and dealt with. If it is something that is unexpected or not controlled, that is where issues come up. But always better if it does not happen at all!

She has a dog that when “we pass by other dogs on our walks he will stare at them and pull on the leash…” Now that is usually (not always) a first sign of DA in a dog, and Ashley’s dog did have a DA reaction to a seemingly DA dog. I think it is great that she recognized it and is willing to take steps to deal with the pup she has. From her many posts, she is a very responsible dog owner. Hopefully, as this is a month old post, she has taken big steps, and has everything under control. I have faith that she has/can hande this pup!

 Quote: Mallory Kwiatkowski

no, the APBT is NOT a fighting breed. please, get it right.

the pit was USED for fighting, but it is first and formost a BULLDOG. a catch dog, a farm dog. NOT a fighting dog.

having the ability to grip and hold, and being remarkablr agile and compact means it was used for fighting, but it was NOT bred for fighting, and the CORRECT temperament for a bulldog is NOT dog aggression.

refusing to back down and being independent are correct, dog aggression is NOT, and should not be tolerated just because it is a pit bull.

a pittie with a correct temperament will NOT be dog aggressive, any more than it will be human aggressive.

And although APBTs were originally bred for all of the reasons you mentioned, they were for many years bred to fight. Not a good thing, but reality. As times change, most breeders are breeding away from that temperament, it is still there in many dogs. In many areas, it is, unfortunately more common to find DA APBTs than not. Hopefully times keep moving these GREAT dogs in the right direction.


Posted too late! Very well said Jenn!

Edited by JessicaKromer (09/20/2008 05:29 PM)
Edit reason: Jenn's post is better than mine!!! (In the whiniest, four year old voice I have..."

yes, the main point is that dog aggression is NOT correct for the breed.

refusing to back down when ANYTHING challenges it is correct, but not being a push over is not the same as being dog aggressive.

scenario:

correct:
your dog is not with you(alpha removed), and is approached by a strange dog behaving aggressively. Your dog doesn't make excessive threat displays, doesn't initiate the attack, but does stand his ground. THAT is a bulldog.

incorrect:
you are there, with your dog, or even if you aren't, and your dog sees another dog and freaks out, lunging, snarling, and is clearly cutting up. That is not correct, whether it be from POOR breeding, or poor handling, or both.


a POORLY bred APBT is dog aggressive. because it is not an ideal breed trait.

 Quote: Jennifer Ruzsa

A non-dog aggressive pit is no more correct than a retriever that won't retrieve, or a Border Collie that won't herd.

 Quote: Mallory Kwiatkowski

.... the main point is that dog aggression is NOT correct for the breed. ....

Jennifer Ruzsa made good points about the history, and about taking the history of animal aggression into account whenever making acquisition and training decisions. An owner of any of the related breeds should be extra-careful about training and control, IMO. However, lack of animal aggression is not an APBT fault.

But dog-aggro suggestions are probably more useful in this thread than that discussion.

Michele and Jennifer gave some good suggestions.

I know the history of the APBT very well. They are no less a fighting dog than the malinois is a premier ring dog. Malinois used to be herding dogs, after all.

I'm sorry, but if a few decades of breeding can turn a sheep herder into the premier protection sport breed in the world, it has the ability to turn a farm/catch dog into a fighting dog. The APBT is to fighting vs. farm as the malinois/GSD/dutchie is to ring vs. farm.

Edit: Oops, sorry Connie! Posted before I read. I certainly didn't mean to hijack. I'll leave the original words of this post intact, but feel free to delete if necessary to stay on topic.

Let's keep the thread on the O.P.'s request for control and training suggestions.

In case the OP returns to this discussion... regardless of the dog's breed, he was being challenged/basically sworn at by another dog while he was standing in his own backyard minding his own business. I don't think there are many dogs who would take this laying down

I feel your pain Ashley. My yard, backs onto a city-owned public park. It's a big park with 4 soccer fields, 4 baseball diamonds, playgrounds, hockey arena etc. My yard backs onto the part near the soccer fields. People walk their dogs off-leash there, ALL THE TIME. (Even though it is against bylaw, but there are no signs posted). Loose dogs LOVE to run my chain link fence and tease my dogs. When I ask owners to please call their dogs and/or leash them, I usually get either a blank stare, or a challenge ("make me", etc). I am to the point my dogs get a grand total of 20-30 minutes outside in the yard per day, and even then this (confrontation) will happen about 3 times a week. It's like a dog park back there!

In a way you are lucky that owners that use that strip of land use leashes, and your yard isn't fenced so you also use a leash. Your dogs are not nose-to-nose. Using a leash helps a lot; I have 4 dogs but if I take them out one at a time on leash, and someone's dog goes by, I can keep them away from the fence and try and get them focused on me (as someone else posted here). This does keep the dog's frustration down, but it takes a long time and a lot of work. It does really help, though.

My final solution was to fence a small part of my yard with plywood, to prevent my dogs seeing out. Unfortunately my yard used to be 50 x 200, and is now about 50x50, but I can now let them play off leash (4 big dogs plus leash only potty breaks = crazy dogs and crazy owner!)

Okay, I feel a little responsible for this. So I get to put my small bit in.
Why don't just we say the breed is bull, steer or cow agressive?
That the APBT is territorial, rank driven, and posessive; as well as willing to back it up, is a credit to it's heritage. To say though, they are 'dog agressive' is simplifying to the lowest common denominator.......And making excuses for poor handling.

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

My dog is cat agressive.
Also bird agressive, and squirral agressive, deer is worth hanging herself over, and a ground hog is to die for. Absolutely hates small yappy pushy ankle biters.
Hmmmm. Must be the selective breeding for agression.
Randy

Wow, this thread kind of exploded!

I know the APBT is now a fighting breed. While I don't think my dog was specifically bred for fighting (he would really suck in an actual fight!), I know that there is probably a genetic tendency for dog aggression in him. I know that this age is where it will start to show itself if he does have it. I'm not going to deny that. I'm willing to work with it. It's not like we're going to dog parks. I rarely take him to Petsmart, even though I work there. He absolutely loves my other dog, and that's okay with me. They get into playful wrestling or tugging matches and I watch them carefully to make sure it doesn't turn into anything serious. If paws come off the ground or if one dog is on top more than he should be they are separated. He gets along very well with friendly, larger-sized dogs.

I know this, and yet it is NOT acceptable for him to be lunging and snarling. That's why I want to fix it. Even if he can never completely ignore other dogs I DON'T want him expressing that kind of behavior.

He has a lot of prey drive toward small dogs and even my own cats, which I also think fueled his reaction toward the miniature schnauzer. For example, just the other day a man walked his lab in front of our house. No more than passing interest from either of my dogs. A while later a woman walked a Chihuahua past. Both of my dogs barked quite a bit.

I do not know his history. He was a transfer to my local shelter from Iowa after the flooding this summer. He was not neutered until he came to the shelter. He had no manners. He was not house-trained. I think he was kept outside and used as a stud dog, but that's only a guess and I will never find out what his past really is like.

I am working on focusing work with him, along with recall and "leave it." Right now those are the most important things for him to learn because, as I said before, he came to me lacking any manners whatsoever. I try to exercise him as much as I can between school and work. I plan on getting a weighted vest to get some more out of our walks. Hell, I might even pick up running for this dog, and I HATE running. That's how important his physical and mental well-being is to me. I know the APBT is a high-energy breed, and that's fine with me. I did not adopt him thinking he would be a sissy couch-potato!

I love this dog, he is my first dog that is mine and mine alone to train. I love his tenacity, his strength, his wiggly-butt excitement when I get home, his absolute love of life. I want to do what's best for him. I saw the other people that wanted to adopt him and I know that they could not give him what he needs.

So in short, yes, I am making some slow but steady progress and if anyone doubts my commitment I will be very grumpy with them =P