There's a big difference between vaccinating for the dog's health and vaccinating because that's what everybody else does. A parvo vaccine is for the dog's health. IMO you need to get your pup vaccinated against parvo. It's a relatively common virus that could kill your pup. I admire that you want to go minimally vaccinated but parvo is just too common to risk it especially with your job.

What people need to remember is that a vaccine is NO guarantee of immunity. There's always the possibility that the vaccine will simply interfere with the antibodies that the puppy receives from mom, and is left completely unprotected from disease.

Maternal immunity is thought to last for 12 to 16 weeks. IMO and IME vaccinating a puppy before 12 weeks is asking for trouble. Nature has provided a plan for immunity and I think by interfering with our dogs natural defenses we are actually causing more problems long term. This is why I do not vaccinate at all. Puppies get sick, vaccinated or not. It happens, there are no guarantees.

I know I sound like a broken record, but I would rather fight a disease than deal with a lifetime of damage from vaccines.

I have seen my share of parvo puppies and had a litter of my own come down with it at 8 weeks old, AFTER they had been vaccinated. That was the last litter I ever allowed to be vaccinated and I haven't had a sick pup since.

I think people should actually do research, and weigh out the risks and benefits and not do something they don't believe in or understand. I think people vaccinate because the vet says so, but I also think there are people that read about not vaccinating on here and think "Ed doesn't vaccinate, I won't either"

Neither of those reasons are valid, I believe in taking responsibility for our kids and animals by becoming educated. Don't just follow the crowd without fully understanding the pros and cons of your choices.

I disagree that a parvo vaccine "is for the dog's health" as posted above.... I think that is what vets brainwash us into thinking. A parvo vaccine is not a guaranteee of health in my experience.

Emily, I read about the d.e.; very interesting. I think that if you continue to see worms after another week or two of treatment you might want to consider a wormer (but it seems as though the worm load is pretty small if the sample you provided was negative) If they are really tiny they may not be tape worm. Usually those are shed as segments and look more like a small maggot, but flatter...

Here's my opinion about the parvo...(solely based on reading; no personal experience with this)
Because your pup is being exposed to a variety of dogs on a daily basis, she will have a greater chance of coming in contact w/ the parvo virus than a pup who is not exposed to other dogs.

As Cindy mentioned, vaccinating her before 12-16 weeks is no guarantee that she will be protected, since maternal antibodies may still be present. However, most parvo vaccines today are 'high titer' (from what I read), and have a better chance of succeeding even when maternal antibodies are present.

Have you checked out that link about treating parvo from Wolf Creek? Their recommendations are very comprehensive, and she states that out of the 34 pups that she's treated (her own and other peoples) only 1 pup has not recovered.

It's a tough call; keep us posted about your decision...

PS Where do you live in Maine? I'm originally from southern Maine!

 Quote: cindy easton rhodes

I think people should actually do research, and weigh out the risks and benefits and not do something they don't believe in or understand. I think people vaccinate because the vet says so, but I also think there are people that read about not vaccinating on here and think "Ed doesn't vaccinate, I won't either" .... Neither of those reasons are valid, I believe in taking responsibility for our kids and animals by becoming educated. Don't just follow the crowd without fully understanding the pros and cons of your choices.

I just want to applaud this message and to say that anyone who wants links to books or free vet-authored web material will find it here. Not someone to decide for them, but definitely the info to assist in the decision.

 Quote: emily oliver

Although I know she has tapeworms, there just must not have been any in the sample... I've since read that tapes aren't super serious worms so I'll just continue using the diatomaceous earth....

How do you know? "Tiny white worms" in the stool isn't really the way I would describe tapeworm segments (I'd go with the "grains of rice" description), and there are a lot of kinds of worms.

Did you scroll through this link?
http://www.thepetcenter.com/exa/worms.html

Good descriptions and photos.

PS "Good descriptions and photos." Particularly nice around breakfast time.

Edited by Connie Sutherland (09/12/2008 10:20 AM)
Edit reason: ps

Hi again Emily,

I would urge you to please reconsider your stance on worming your pup. You say he has worms and that needs to be addressed, sooner rather than later.

You believe they are tapeworms. That means your pup has, or has had, fleas. What if it's roundworms? They can be passed on to humans.

I really do understand wanting to do everything as naturally as possible. I understand not wanting to dose your pup for something that may not exist and I think many people here would agree with you on that point.

But in this case, you KNOW your pup has worms and I believe for the overall health of your pup it would be wise to get rid of them. Once he's "clean" you can start over with the DE and assess how well it works as a preventative.

Sorry, but I don't agree. I have heard and read over and over again how DE can and does get rid of worms. It may take a little longer than chemicals, but is way healthier. A dog with a strong immune system can even overcome worms on their own.

If worms were so terrible and unhealthy wolves would have died out. There are even studies that seem to show that, at least in humans, worms can be benificial.

People have a phobia of worms. For centuries, even mellinium, everything had worms and survived just fine.

If the fecal was negetive for worms, where is the justification for stronger measures? I don't believe in regular worming. I rarely even check. If I would see something, I would do just as Emily, DE.

 Quote: shody lytle

If I would see something, I would do just as Emily, DE.

Would you then continue fecal checks with the vet?

I fall in the middle, like Sarah; I'm open to this discussion.

I don't even consider worming just as a "regular" precaution, but if I saw worms and the fecal didn't, I'd redo it until I knew what I was dealing with.

 Quote: shody lytle

If worms were so terrible and unhealthy wolves would have died out. There are even studies that seem to show that, at least in humans, worms can be benificial.

People have a phobia of worms. For centuries, even mellinium, everything had worms and survived just fine.

I have to take issue with this. The fact that wild animals can survive with worm infestations (and many of them do) does not mean that worms in a domestic dog are trivial. Successful parasites have evolved to get what they need from their hosts without killing them, but it is very hard to be in optimal health with a worm infestation. I should know - I worked for two years in a very impoverished rural area of the Ecuadorian Andes where I picked up repeated intestinal worm infestations. I'll spare you the lurid details, but while it doesn't kill you it it is unpleasant and quite debilitating. If there are studies showing that worm infestations are beneficial to humans I'd like to see them - that sure was not my experience.

My own dogs are raw-fed, minimally vaccinated, and I do not routinely worm "just in case". I *do* worm them if they pick up worms and a fecal tests positive - it happens very occasionally, most recently when eating horse poop resulted in a tapeworm infestation in the junior dog. I have never had a problem giving deworming medication to an otherwise healthy dog. I have, on the other hand, seen the damaging and debilitating effects of of persistent untreated worm infestations on strays and rescues.

 Quote:

I have, on the other hand, seen the damaging and debilitating effects of of persistent untreated worm infestations on strays and rescues.

Who are getting little to no proper nutrition, are under extreme stress and exposed to the elements. All a sure way to supress or damage an immune system.

Here are two links:

http://www.rawlearning.com/worming.html

The study:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3287733.stm