Thank you to everyone who replied. I certainly appreciate anyhelp I can get in the quest:-) I have another question. I've read in Ed's articles that Black and Red GSDs are German Showline. What about Black and Tan? For starters I see lot's of working line websites where all the sires and bitches are black or sable but then they will have pictures of black and tan shepherds doing bite work etc. I ask because I completely understand that to pick the perfect working dog by color alone is insane. But having said that, there is a part of me that is really connected to the traditional black and tan/saddle GSD "look". Is it possible to find both? a Great working dog and the traditional saddled black and tan?

Second (sort of related question). In Ed's pack structure DVD he works with a young dog named Bravo. Bravo is a beautiful black and tan saddle/traditional looking GSD. Is Bravo of working lines?

To sum this up, I would obviously not pick my puppy based on color. The qualties, abilities, characteristics are most important to me. But if I could find a traditional look, black and tan saddled working line pup, I think I would be in heaven.

Black and tan is in working lines. I have a very nice black and tan girl laying at my feet, Raya.

Technically there is not a black and red, it is a black and tan that has been selected for the rich pigment of the tan/red.

Bet I've confused you even more now, haven't I? LOL

Nope, haven't confused me a'tall:-) I understand that the black and red is actually a pigmentation. I am putting two and two together here, so correct me if I am wrong, that the black and "red" pigmentation is a pigment which is bred for mainly in german showlines (if that makes sense).

So, if I am understanding that Black and Tan coloring "is" a Working line coloring, then I must say I am both very excited to hear that and also that preferably "that" is what I am looking for.

Lastly, for now anyway, does anyone know of a good, reputable breeder for me to check out that can offer me a good Black and tan saddled working dog puppy with great potential? And thank you very much for the clarification. I think I love this forum.

Betty,
I'm not a breeder, so the ins and outs of the GSD lines are like quantum mechanics or string theory to me. Unfathomable, unintelligible gibberish.
How does it happen that my present lovely come out with the red high lights while the rest of her litter mates came out black and tan like the parents?

If I'm not leaning, I'm not paying attention.
Randy

Just a slightly different tint, like two different shades of blonde. Princess Weasel who would chew off the leg of anyone that accused her of having show lines has been a beautiful reddish sable (among other shades) a time or two. The reddish tan occurs naturally but somewhere along the way that is what the SV started awarding in the show ring so the show line breeders really started breeding for it.

Plus I understand that feeding carrots can help with the red tint. <grin>

Black and tan is definately in the working lines Tony, although sable is a little more common. When you pick out your pup I would look at the markings/color last and temperament first. But look who's talking, I almost did not buy Raya because I really prefer a nice sable!

Like I said, I absolutely agree with that. I would much rather have a dog with a good temprament, good drives, intelligent, etc than a dog i chose because of its color. However If I am interested in that particular "look" i fugured it would make sense to first see if I can find a breeder who could offer the combination of both. In other words if I don't use that as a criteria at first I won't know if Its out there. If not, then I would resort to the characteristics alone. Hope that made sense and I didn't come off like an ignorant new guy. :-)

We pay alot of money for a well bred pup, looking for the best temperment and conformation, why not wait and find one that is the colour you prefer also. After all, you have to look at it for it's lifetime! Might as well go for the whole package. I'll bet the pup you are looking for is out there Tony, be patient!

Your idea makes sence to me. When I got my first 2 GSD I was looking for black and tan, ended up with 2 beautiful sables. When I got my last puppy, I decided I wanted a bi-color and got a bi-color female . She comes from a great working line and she is an awesome pup. I had to wait for quite awhile to get the color and the characteristics that I wanted, but, it was worth the wait.

 Quote: tony pergolizzi

Like I said, I absolutely agree with that. I would much rather have a dog with a good temprament, good drives, intelligent, etc than a dog i chose because of its color. However If I am interested in that particular "look" i fugured it would make sense to first see if I can find a breeder who could offer the combination of both. In other words if I don't use that as a criteria at first I won't know if Its out there. If not, then I would resort to the characteristics alone. Hope that made sense and I didn't come off like an ignorant new guy. :-)

Makes wonderful sense!

Shoot, my sable girl is starting to go red on the backs of her ears on her hind legs.

Sable is more common in the working line dogs, only because it is a dominant color gene (someone slap me if I've got this backwards...).
Black & tan is a recessive gene, so it's less likely when breeders are breeding for workability and not color.