Bob, I was typing out my ramble when you posted! I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't against your method of 'lifting' the dog but I mentioned it simply because I didn't think it was appropriate in the case with my old family dog because he was pushed in to defending who he though he was supposed to protect (the trainer physicallly pushed me, not violently, but with his body, to get me out of the way). I don't know anything, beyond that one experience, about that method so please don't think I was singling you out, I didn't read your post until I finally posted my ramble.

Carrie,
Absolutely no offence was taken or even felt it was intended towards me.
The unfortunate fact about the web is a lack of emotions and not looking at one another face to face in real time.
I think that creates more bs then anything else.
On top of that I'm just to dern old to get my feelings hurt. LOL!
Listen to everyone, then decide what works for you. :wink:

Bob, I am glad that you didn't take offence!

Maybe you would like to offer more details on the method for me? How does it work, why does it work, which situations does it work in, which ones does it not?

I wonder, from time to time, if maybe I just over-reacted about that situation many years ago. But I want to say no...the dog should not have grabbed the trainer's coat but the trainer shouldn't have bumped me out of the way either. Not that I wanted an overly protective dog...I was there so I would have complete control over him in all situations. I wouldn't have felt less shocked by it if the trainer didn't look so angry but if he had done a professional job of it I might have learned something. But no, it was sheer anger.

Oops, another ramble.

Carrie, to be perfectly frank, if a dog in a class that I was teaching barked aggressively at me and then proceeded to bite me, and all while the owner did nothing to correct the behavior, I would have likely done the same thing . You are lucky the dog only got his shirt. Yes, it is a nice feeling to have a protective dog, but you allowed the dog to bark at strangers to scare them off. That is not a stable or safe dog to have around, and you found out what could happen. What if that had been just some person in a crowd that jostled you or that your dog had taken exception to. Especially if this dog was a pet, barking at strangers in a warning manner is NOT okay. You are the one to choose who can and cannot come near you, never he dog.

Hanging a dog like that is not the only way to stop or “fix” an aggressive dog, and in some cases may not be the right thing to do, but in that situation an immediate action needed to be taken, and at fifteen perhaps you were not ready to do so yet. This is a technique that shows the dog that the behavior was not acceptable and will not be tolerated. It should NOT be done in anger and not in a violent manner. For most dogs in that mode, a collar correction would serve to get them more amped up and angry.

I really hope that you do not take this as an attack on you. It is certainly not meant to be. We all start somewhere and sometimes learn lessons the hard way. Hell, I have had extremely aggressively foster Rotts that would likely have acted as yours did. I have even had a dog bite before. It was a painful lesson for me to have learned and a bitter pill to swallow to know that I had ignored the warning signs and had inadvertently allowed it to happen. PLEASE listen to what OED has to say. He has been across the board and has probably used every training technique out there. You will see so many stories on his board that will help you to understand, perhaps, that what happened may have actually been what your dog needed…

Anyway you look at it though, it must have be a horrifying experience to watch the whole thing unfold. I am sorry you had to go through that.

By the way, WELCOME!!!

Thanks for the welcome Jessica and don't worry, I don't take your comments as an attack on me.

From your educated answer I would have to assume that you have enough sense to prevent the situation from the get-go. I doubt you would have pushed the dog past his comfort levels without instructing the owner about what to do and why. I have a feeling you would have, when the dog barked, explained to the owner what needed to be done at that moment and why. I am willing to bet you have enough sense not to rush up, nudge the owner out of the way and expect the obviously nervous dog to not freak out...then proceed to hang the dog, in anger no less. To snatch the leash from me, jostle me out of the way rudely, even after I politely asked him to not approach...well, not alot of common sense there. Oh, I forgot to mention that not ten minutes before we'd gone around the classroom stating who we were, what problems we wanted to solve through the class, what was most important to us to learn. I said that I wanted to have complete control, through obedience training, of my dog because he was very protective of us girls and would bark if a stranger approached. And not a woof, woof, woof, call animal control 'cuz this dog is annoying the neighbourhood and not a snarling, spitting, baring of teeth warning...it was a loud WOOF! and that was it. (Five girls + our Mom, Dad worked away from home most of the time so a dog who barked was considered an ok thing...but we all knew we needed 100% control because there was always people around picking up their kids etc. though he was usually kennelled when it was busy around the house.) So this guy knew the dog was not comfortable with strangers and I needed help with that. I was there to learn how to deal with the situation! I think that if I had enough of a lack of brains to walk up to manhandle a strange dog whose owner had just told me not to approach and whose dog had just barked his typical 'stay away' bark, I would be asking to get bitten. He (and I) was lucky it was just his coat tail. Had he said "ok, that's not acceptable and in this situation you...<fill in the blank with training method of choice>" I could have learned to correct the behaviour and all without teeth flying. I only wish I had done my job and acted like a pack leader for him, poor dog. But, proudly I can say he and I did learn basic obedience on our own (thanks to some books and videos borrowed from the library, ha ha) and while he was protective till his last day he was controllable and never laid a tooth wrong except for that one class.

Oh, I did call the SPCA about the situation. They said that it was a training method some people used and they did not consider it abuse. Alright, fine. Funny how my pinch collar is considered a no-no but damaging a dog's trachea and hanging him is a-ok, but that's another topic, ha ha. They also told me the trainer was not a certified trainer or one with any training besides experience training his own dogs (it was a community dog training club, consisting of basically a bunch of dog owners). I guess you get what you pay for! At fifteen I just didn't know any better. Now I do.

Love the dog in your photo!