Re: Obedience @ 6 months
[Re: Angelique Cadogan ]
#221343 - 12/23/2008 09:06 PM |
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Jose,
There is some good advice given here and you would do well to pay attention to much of it. One of the things I noticed in your video is you adjusting to the dog instead of making the dog adjust to you. Your comment about the dog getting an intro to the exercise is well taken but now it is time to slow down and get it perfected. One technique for heeling straight is do all your heeling against a wall or fence. This will get the dog into the correct position. Through muscle memory the dog in time will recognize what feels right in the heeling (positionally).
Are you not using a toy for any particular reason?
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Re: Obedience @ 6 months
[Re: Michael Reese ]
#221349 - 12/23/2008 10:43 PM |
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Are you not using a toy for any particular reason?
I was wondering about that, too, but don't you find that at this stage it makes some dogs a little too amped for the learning phase? I usually use treats for learning and the ball to reward later and increase the flash after the learning is solid. My GSD and BC are too crazed to learn anything new if there's a glimpse or a sniff of a ball/tug, and their food drive is more than sufficient as a motivator for initial learning.
Angelique, SO glad you're here! Remember when I posted MY vid way back when? I wish I knew then what I know now! Good thing Carbon's forgiving.
Carbon |
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Re: Obedience @ 6 months
[Re: Amber Morgan ]
#221353 - 12/23/2008 11:23 PM |
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I remember Amber! He looked so good!
Here is what I think with toys and food. Food/treats is great for dogs that love it and work good with food . When a dog starts to get bored with food or look flat ,I like to go to a toy and bring them up in "drive" It is also good for recovery, like after a correction , I would take out the toy and reward for the right behavior. So it all depends, you can use both but for different reasons and results. Like I have a young male in My ob class and to teach him the finish the hanlder was using treats and he was a bit slow not too excited about it, but man with a toy he does it better, happier and faster. I also trained my young male with a toy from the very start at 12 weeks of age and he never saw a treat, he had no food drive and was flat with food but for his tug ! He would do anything for me and with a big smile. Use either or both! It depends what you need it for, I like a dog that is happy on the field , ears up ,head up, a wag in the tail...that's the best picture...
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Re: Obedience @ 6 months
[Re: Angelique Cadogan ]
#221386 - 12/24/2008 12:13 PM |
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The picture of a happy working dog is a valid point to make. In my opinion though it is a matter of will the dog work for the toy or not. There are times when a dog can be taught easier with a treat, such as tracking or the down, or even the sit, but if I can use a toy I will. Training is training. What I'm saying is there is a principle to follow just like when an athlete is training his/her body. Stability comes first, then strength, and then power. Having said that tough, you can combine these 3 to achieve more than one thing at a time.
So, bringing this back to the dogs and training the question is how do you apply this. I use a ball and tug toys generally to keep the dog high in drive. I don't want the dogs drive going up and down like a roller coaster. I want it to go up and stay there until were done training and then put him/her away so the next time we can do it again and build on that.
In training athletes many people in the past have been taught to isolate body parts to make them stronger, however many athletes have discovered that there body and mind is a whole (holistic) and the natural way to achieve the best they can be is through training as many parts at a time that they can, not isolating. This allows coordination development (hence the term core training).
This same principle is develped in the dog as you combine high drive and the different commands. After all when you work a Schutzhund dog it is in drive.
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Re: Obedience @ 6 months
[Re: Michael Reese ]
#221389 - 12/24/2008 01:40 PM |
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Well , every dog is different that's why many people who go by books only get nowhere cause not every dog is the same.As far as going up & down like a roller coaster is all on the dog and handler. We have handlers who back tie their dogs and bring their dogs up in drive with a sack ,then unclip them and use food on the field in their ob. That is the reason I bring up the toy & food or both.It all depends on the DOG, maybe your dog goes up and down , but my dogs go up and stay up .You just have to know how to keep and WHAT keeps your dog in drive.PERIOD. As far as athletes go, the one thing in human sport verses dogs is that you can undo your mistakes, it takes a lot longer to undo mistakes on a dog once you have put the wrong foundation work. Dogs always go back to what they were taught first, it takes a skilled handler and patience to undo those mistakes.That is the reason I point things out to Jose before he adds anymore mistakes. Components are important with a green handler and dog. Too many handlers rush into their training we see that all the time. SO as far as athletes I fully understand what you are saying I have been one for many years and know what it takes to have power and endurance:
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r77/cadogancna/2jpg.jpg
I just think with dogs , you have take your time and use tools that work on YOUR DOG.
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Re: Obedience @ 6 months
[Re: Angelique Cadogan ]
#221391 - 12/24/2008 02:01 PM |
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Angelique,
I'm sure there are many things that are different between dogs and humans, however the principle I mentioned stands. Having said that I will also mention at this point that every dog is different and you have to be able to read your dog to decide what the next move should be, but bringing your dog into high drive and keeping it there is the principle. My understanding of training does not really come from books, though I definitely have done some reading. I have learned this principle from a much better source then a book. I would also like to say that even before the training comes relationship which also has principles that are exactly the same between humans and dogs. This is what makes it a reliable principle or truth if you may. For example concerning relationships one of those principles is that your power is only as good as your influence. It doesn't matter if it's a dog we're talking about or a person the principle stands.
I will correct you on one thing that you said though. If your dog goes up and down in drive it's not the dog or handler, it's the handler.
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Re: Obedience @ 6 months
[Re: Michael Reese ]
#221394 - 12/24/2008 02:39 PM |
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I never said it was the Dog!? And you have to remember that green handlers many times cant read their dogs, the proof is in the video..Hey the reading comment was not to you, I think I know you from reading your posts that that is not meant on you. I was pointing out that many (that are green)handlers are getting into the sport and think that everything applies. Not the case, as I said every dog is different.Not everything you read(not U specific) is meant for Your dog, people have to read between the lines and know if it would work for their dogs or not but many green handlers don't know that. And Also endurance plays a part in the training phase, I see people that bring out their dog that has been laying around the house and expect the dog to run blinds or run their "voraus" at full speed. Endurance is important for every sport and when SOME dogs go flat you have to go further and think about many tings beside the handler do's and don't on the field with tugs or food,but what is the condition of the dog as well . Running blinds takes a lot of energy and if your dog is not in top condition you can forget about it. What I am pointing out is that for the sport there are many things that play a huge part of a good performance, Club trial or not ,your dog has to have a good body condition, good endurance, happy to be there and show a good relationship with their handlers. And if handlers are too quick to get there I assure you that dog will lack one or more of them..I believe in components for many reasons and green handlers have to learn each one at a time..
Mike have a good Christmas, U know I like ya..
And I wanted to say that I won many Circuit training competition and lost one from not lack of strenght but because I did not work on my endurance level that year, conditioning is so important, I think handlers forget that part of the preparation.
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Re: Obedience @ 6 months
[Re: Angelique Cadogan ]
#221397 - 12/24/2008 03:43 PM |
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Angelique,
Now harm no foul. God bless you and have a merry Christmas.
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Re: Obedience @ 6 months
[Re: Michael Reese ]
#221404 - 12/24/2008 06:34 PM |
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Im impressed, and you too ,look like you love what your doing. That is all that counts,and your doing your research. So do all you want and can and have a blast,they are here with us for such a short time.So enjoy and send more pictures so we can see him as he grows,I would love to see him around 2. Best to all! Merry Christmas DEE
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Re: Obedience @ 6 months
[Re: Jose' Abril ]
#221455 - 12/26/2008 05:49 AM |
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Wow I never expected so many reviews.I must say everything that has been expressed will be taken into deep consideration.Thanks again!!!
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