Re: Humping!?!
[Re: Chad Felkel ]
#19473 - 09/24/2004 04:40 PM |
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Mal is also short for MALINOIS- MAL-n-WAH <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Kristen,
In general- working folk don't run out and neuter. People who work/breed don't want to shut a door that they may need open later. Sure, if the dog is total junk and should never be bred- go for it- but there are many dogs who at two years old (or less) were neutered just because the owner was bullied... then later on the dog needs to be rehomed and if the dog IS a good worker (which you aren't going to know till later than 2) nutless isn't a great selling point.
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Re: Humping!?!
[Re: Chad Felkel ]
#19474 - 09/24/2004 06:20 PM |
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Re: Humping!?!
[Re: Chad Felkel ]
#19475 - 09/25/2004 02:18 AM |
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ah yes - the "prevent disease" argument for neutering. i'll refrain from moving this topic towards diet and/or genetic factors and the decline of pet health in general over the last couple of decades.
as for the "unwanted behaviors" remark, hmm...so you want a dog, you just don't want him to really act like, you know, a dog. or something. right?
but, back the nuts of the discussion (pun intended) - for whatever it's worth, my brother's a vet - and according to him there's no medical reason for neutering a dog. none. zip. the only time he's ever neutered a dog is when his 2 year old lab led his 12 week old lab puppy on a "hunting" (no - not birds) trip over 6 miles through knee-deep snow when the invisible fence shorted. 15 minutes after he picked them up from the friendly folks who called, he was on the table. of course, my brother has been known to have a bit of a short fuse, but i digress.
who am i going to listen to: a city vet that receives constant pressure and propaganda from the local SPCA (like the one my girlfriend works for) or a family member with the same medical degree from an equally recognized vet school?
hmmm...i think i'll let my boys be boys. and keep them too.
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Re: Humping!?!
[Re: Chad Felkel ]
#19476 - 09/26/2004 09:49 PM |
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I've got no problem with my dog "knowing" he's the man, as long as it's not on my leg! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Humping!?!
[Re: Chad Felkel ]
#19477 - 09/27/2004 08:30 AM |
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I dont see the point of the whole neutering phenomenon.
There are pros and cons to both sides of the argument. As have been outlined already
If your a responsible owner there is no need to neuter a healthy dog.
There are health risks involved either way, fact. Keeping your dog in tact doesnt immediatly commit him to a fate of ill health and premature death, and visa vers neutering your dog wont guarantee him a sickness free life.
Also if your responsible then overpopulating the doggy world by accident just isnt going to happen.
And correcting undesirable behaviour - what particular behaviour do you want correcting?
Perhaps if you need to cut your dogs nuts off to correct behaviour that you cannot, then maybe just maybe you are not equiped to handle that dog in first place?
Now if your an irresponsible owner, there certainly is a need to neuter because of the risk to overpopulating with unwanted rogue dogs but because your irresponsible you wont. Thats why theyre are called irresponsible.
I keep my dogs in one piece, as for undesirable behaviour - i havent noticed anything i cant handle.
As for unwanted dogs for the population its not going to happen on my watch.
In my own personel opinion it wouldnt be a dog without its bollocks.
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Re: Humping!?!
[Re: Chad Felkel ]
#19478 - 09/27/2004 11:28 AM |
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Originally posted by Kristen Cabe:
Intact dogs don't cause overpopulation. Irresponsible owners do. This is true, but how many irresponsible owners are there out there? A good bit more than there are responsible ones that's for sure. The problem with that argument is, irresponsible dog owners don't read forums like this one. It might be more helpful if you made that speech to an audience that needs to hear it.
As far as the claims about the health benefits for neutering... actually the veterinary research shows it's about a wash. Neutered male dogs have the same average lifespan as intact males. There's no reason to neuter a healthy male dog simply on account of the alleged "health benefits" of neutering.
And BTW, you mentioned prostate cancer as something that's prevented by neutering. Nope. Actually, research shows that canine prostate cancer is one of the things that's *more* likely to happen from neutering. Osteosarcoma (bone cancer) is another, at least in dogs neutered before 12 mo. of age. Try reading what the veterinary literature says about these things (as I've done), and you too will see that the pro-spay/neuter propaganda contains many false claims.
Laura
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Re: Humping!?!
[Re: Chad Felkel ]
#19479 - 09/27/2004 11:39 AM |
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Duh, Malinois - I don't know why I thought Malamute! lol
And correcting undesirable behaviour - what particular behaviour do you want correcting? This is the only thing I am going to address, because since this board is obviously only made up of responsible breeders and people with working dogs, there is apparently no need in addressing the spay/neuter issue. :rolleyes:
Undesirable behavior can be any of the following:
Humping (which was the original reason for this post)
Roaming (which has also been mentioned)
Marking of Territory in Inappropriate Places
Aggression (studies have proven that the majority of dog bites to humans are by unaltered male dogs)
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Re: Humping!?!
[Re: Chad Felkel ]
#19480 - 09/27/2004 12:11 PM |
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Originally posted by Kristen Cabe:
And correcting undesirable behaviour - what particular behaviour do you want correcting? This is the only thing I am going to address, because since this board is obviously only made up of responsible breeders and people with working dogs, there is apparently no need in addressing the spay/neuter issue. :rolleyes: I disagree. There's plenty of reason to discuss spay/neuter issues, and the issues surface frequently on this and other boards. There's so much misinformation out there about spay/neuter (such as your statement about prostate cancer) that it's helpful to have a forum like this one where we can also discuss the *facts* about spay/neuter.
Undesirable behavior can be any of the following:
Humping (which was the original reason for this post)
Roaming (which has also been mentioned)
Marking of Territory in Inappropriate Places
Aggression (studies have proven that the majority of dog bites to humans are by unaltered male dogs)
Please provide veterinary literature citations where these results can be found.
Just curious, but did the studies show that neutering reduced the incidence of each of these? Or is it just a male dog thing, neutered or not?
Also, did the studies show that age at neutering made a difference? Protection dog trainers say that neutering after 18-24 mo. of age has no effect on a dog's abilities in protection work, while neutering at younger ages does have a negative effect. So I'm wondering if neutering after 18-24 mo. of age has any impact on roaming, marking, humping, or inappropriate aggression. My guess is that inappropriate dominance aggression and humping (dominance behaviors) aren't affected at all by neutering after 18-24 mo. of age, since appropriate aggression (in protection work) isn't affected.
Laura Sanborn
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Re: Humping!?!
[Re: Chad Felkel ]
#19481 - 09/27/2004 12:30 PM |
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Undesirable behavior can be any of the following:
Humping (which was the original reason for this post)
Roaming (which has also been mentioned)
Marking of Territory in Inappropriate Places
Aggression (studies have proven that the majority of dog bites to humans are by unaltered male dogs)
Humping - can be corrected without the snip
Roaming - dont let your dog roam. Some sort of fence might come in handy here. Or if your out, a lead perhaps, but most of all crazy as it might sound - Obedience training.
Marking of territory - can also be corrected without the snip
Aggression studies have proven that the majority of dog bites to humans are by unaltered male dogs) Im sure there's a whole lot more to dogs biting than just being in tact - you can't possible arque for neutering with this study! -socialise your dog and control your dog, you dont need to snip for this either.
All in all i think some people look to neutering for quick fix to make a dog easier to control - which is something that can be done by spending time training your dog. Its not rocket science.
Just my opinion
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Re: Humping!?!
[Re: Chad Felkel ]
#19482 - 09/27/2004 05:01 PM |
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Snipping does NOT equal no humping. My boy was neutered at 13 weeks at the pound. He still humps at 16 months.
I say "NO!" and he instantly stops. It's irritating, but it's a doggy thing. I've had females that hump too. I don't know why him doing it annoys me extra. Must be the sexual association because he's male.
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