Quote: lisa harrison

OK, this is how I taught the down. I give the down command.Once her body hits the floor, I say yes and reward with a treat. Ok, she knows down, so if she breaks her command, say when I walk away, I will say "no down". If she lays down again I will say yes and reward with a treat. If I see her starting to break the command,I will say "no stay". Not if she actually breaks the command, but if I tell she is starting to get up.

I'm getting that after you mark and reward the instant she downs that you expect her to stay.
She did as you asked ("down"). Extend the time you mark until a bit of time. 5-7 seconds at first.
"Down" the dog downs THEN add time in small, random incraments BEFORE you mark. Also, no need to walk away if she still isn't understanding the "stay".
When you add time, shorten the distance. When you add distance, shorten the time. Never add both together till the dog truely understands.
Take you hand signals out of the pic. Your using it more of a control then a training measure.

I'm so glad that Bob popped on here.

 Quote: bob scott

.... "Down" ... the dog downs ... THEN add time in small, random incraments BEFORE you mark.

If you remind yourself that the marker means "Correct! You did what I asked! Reward coming!", it might help. The marker is also called the terminal bridge; it terminates the exercise (of the command and the compliance with the command).

 Quote: bob scott

When you add time, shorten the distance. When you add distance, shorten the time. Never add both together till the dog truely understands.

.... no matter what the training method!

Sorry,I have been grooming all day, just got done.

Ok,that makes sense.I did not realize that when I gave the mark, the session ended. And now that I am hearing it, I do recall that from the DVD, it just didn't register and stick in my mind. I will add duration slowly before I mark. It's always handler error,isn't it! My dog is smarter than me!

And I am a idiot. I know the clicker acts as the marker,just like the verbal mark. Yet,I always equate the two! (Treats and clicker)I have to remember (clicker-mark-Reward-food) I have done it in past posts as well. Sorry!


Cindy-I did write that I say stay over and over again in my post. I think I made the statement because in leash and collar the stay is automatically "built in". So if I had to say stay one or two times I consider that constantly. My poor written communication skills.If they break the command once and they know the command and just aren't complying,leash correction...no middle ground. (I got B's in English, I always thought I was a good communicator- until Leerburg.LOL!

 Quote: lisa harrison

I did not realize that when I gave the mark, the session ended.

Well, that one particular command-and-response ended.

That is what I meant...command, not session. There's that communication thang again!

Hey,Maybe my dog could write my posts!

In AKC the dog is given a "stay" command after the down or sit.
In Schutzhund there is no second command. Once the "sit" or "down" is given the dog is expected to hold that position till given another command or released.
I no longer use the "stay" command even in AKC competition. When the judge says "leave your dog" I just walk away from my dog. He knows what his last command was. I don't see the need to reinforce it with an additional command. If any signal to stay is given it's used only in the Utility exercise otherwise his "signal" that he's to stay put when I leave is my stepping off on my right foot with the "foose" command. The right foot is his signal to "stay" in the Schutzhund long down.