Bryant, can you grasp simple statistics? Because if you can then you will know that the average "breeding quality" dog doesn't work out, unless you breed anything that had 4 legs. There is a hell of a lot more to a dog than hips. What titles are you planning to do to test temperament? Elbows? vWD? It's common knowledge that most puppies don't work out, and to not realize this shows your ignorance.

If you didn't tell the breeders that you had the other puppy coming you are a con-artist. Any decent breeder would not have sold you a pup had they known your full situation. Hopefully one will find out what you are really doing and not send a pup. Withholding vital information is the same as lying. This is why most of the breeders that have quit breeding get out of it. The people aren't worth it, although it does disturb me that you would get full AKC papers.

Tim, it is real simple. Anyone that can't even figure out what material to get to learn how to train a dog is a rank newbie. I would NEVER purchase a pup from someone that had to ask such basic questions. Part of being a breeder is providing detailed support for the new puppy owners. Bryant won't be able to do this. The very fact that he is not asking this question to the two breeders he is about to get puppies from shows that he is trying to cover up the real story.

I think Bryant has a right to get 7 puppies if he wishes BUT I have to agree with Lauren on a few points...and Bryant, I am not picking on you personally but I feel very strongly about this issue.

If I was the breeder of one of these 2 pups, I would never knowingly sell a puppy to someone that I knew was getting another puppy at the same time...it's incredibly difficult to raise 2 puppies of the same age at the same time...If I found out after the fact that one of my puppy buyers had purchased another puppy of the same age, at the same time I would be upset. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Withholding this information from the breeder is not fair to them or to the puppies, IMO

someone who is asking basic questions about how to deal with two pups in the area of crate training is not likely to be ready to be a breeder in 2 years or so..

I say all this from experience....breeding is incredibly difficult and time consuming and even if you KNOW what you are getting into, it's always loaded with challenges.

here at Leerburg we don't sell 2 pups to a customer at the same time and I have frequent requests for this, same policy for my Malinois puppies.

I can't tell you how many puppies I have raised and then cut from any possibility of participating in my breeding program down the road. The percentage that makes the cut around here is probably around 10-20% at my closest estimate.

If you are interested in a breeding program, then i would suggest purchasing an adult dog...buying 2 puppies in order to do this is not what I recommend to anyone unless they have loads of experience and are willing to be honest and not breed the dogs a few years down the road. Too many folks get puppies as breeding prospects and then decide that even if they aren't breeding quality they have to get something back (i.e. $) for all the time they have invested... this is how breeds go downhill. It all starts with the best intentions. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Lauren

I cant comment on the breeding aspect of Byrants posts - but i think your personel attacks are a little out of order.

Most likely the breeders the dogs are coming from are upscale puppy mills, because I do not know of any reputable breeder that would sell a puppy to someone with another puppy If you didn't tell the breeders that you had the other puppy coming you are a con-artist. Any decent breeder would not have sold you a pup had they known your full situation 1st you attatck the breeder then with more information you attack the poster calling him a con artist. There is no law that says you cant own two puppies.
Your going on as if owning two puppies should be an arrestable offence.
All the poor man did is ask for advice on whether or not to keep together the two pups.
You may well have a point regarding his interest in breeding - all i will say is there are better ways of putting your point across than personal insults.
Whos to say he cant eventually breed anyway. Is this only available to a limited few. Maybe he will learn more about it in the next couple of years and make a different descition. Constructive advise is more benefitial than all out attacks.

Lauren,
I will not even waste my time responding to you or any person with your demeanor and I would very much appreciate it if you do not respond in any more of my threads unless you can learn how to control your temper. The next time you respond in such a benighted manner I will show you the same respect which you have shown me.

Hi Tim,
I appreciate your replies and I would like to say that I am a “newbie” in this and will probably make many mistakes along the way. The one thing I can commit to is doing all I can to educate myself to the proper training, handling and nurturing of my puppies/dogs. I am sure no breeder, handler, trainer or just dog owner has ever started out as an expert or knowing everything and I will be the first to say I don’t either. This is the main reason why I turned to this board for some of the answers. I have also been studying some other materials and online resources and have also ordered my first DVD from Ed. Unlike some other remarks which stated because I did not ask the breeders all of these questions meant I was trying to cover up the real story, the real story is I feel there are much better resources for acquiring this knowledge, such as Ed’s books and DVDs, online resources and a professional trainer which I have also lined up for helping me with this. Thanks again for your replies and I will try to keep the board posted with the progress of my puppies. I will also make commitment to providing both of these puppies/dogs with the proper training and care or I will make sure I find a proper trainer/handler for the other one.

Hi Cindy,
Thanks for your reply and I would like to say I was not intentionally trying to withhold any vital information from either breeder. It was actually more of a timing issue the way the phone calls were returned from the breeders rather than withholding information. I had purchased the male from a bloodline which I was very interested in and then not long after that the call came in from the breeder with the female puppy from another line which I was also very interested in. The problem with the female was there were only two puppies in the litter, both being females, but only one which I was interested in because of color so I committed to purchasing her on the phone immediately for fear someone else would purchase her before I had another chance. I already knew I wanted a male and a female and was also already familiar with both bloodlines. If there was a mistake made is was made on my part but it was not made intentionally or made with ANY deceptions in mind. I also agree with you in the fact I may not be ready to start a breeding program in 2 or 5 years and I am comfortable with that fact if that be the case because my number one priority will be family companionship with each of the dogs and if the breeding program works out that will just be a bonus out of it all. One thing about it though is if the breeding aspect of it does not work out the main thing is I have 2 wonderful new companions to my family.
Thanks again for your advice and I am really looking forward to seeing the new video which I ordered the other day. I am planning on ordering the one titled “Your Puppy 8 weeks to 8 months” in the near future as Ed also highly recommended it as another valuable resource.

Thanks again to all,
Bryant

Looks like you have had the same experiences, Cindy. Hopefully the guy will call the breeders and let them know his real intentions. Although a breeder that will sell a pup based on color is probably questionable to begin with. If I were a breeder I wouldn't even tell someone what color the pup was, unless all else was equal (which it never is).

Bryant I want to wish you luck with fulfilling your desires but please also think about these other things too, because I have to be honest, it does sound like you are being a little impulsive.

I have trained and throughout my years owned alot of dogs-off all different breeds, and I can't imagine owning 2 GSD puppies at the same time out of strong working bloodlines (assuming they are coming out of working lines) along with trying to raise a child(assuming your child is young), and doing what ever work you do and the work you do on your farm. I don't think it is impossible, I think that something eventually will give though. Training a dog is a full time job, raising a child is a full time job, and if you have an active farm(cows, crops etc) that is another full time job, eventually something will give. And dont' forget the $$$ aspect of it.

Read all that you can on GSD, dogs in general, dog pack order, behaviors etc. and during this time if you even once stop and ask your self can I do this? For the love of all GSD let one of the puppies go.

Good luck and keep us posted! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi Dee Dee,
Thanks for your reply and also for your advice. I will take all aspects of raising two puppies at the same time in consideration and will also commit to educating myself as best I can on the subject, always keeping the puppies/dogs well-being as my main priority. If for any reason it turns out to where I cannot provide both dogs with the training and nurturing which they both need, I will make sure I find one of the puppies/dogs a loving home where they will be provided with these. The puppies are both coming from very good, very strong working bloodlines, in fact, my male is out of some of the best (Top 25 sires) in the country according to the GSD Pedigree Search website. My son will be 4 in December and is in school from 8 a.m. until 5 p.m. - 5 days a week, which is when I will set up my training schedule. I do not work and will be able to dedicate most of the day, everyday of the week to their training schedules if required. I have also set up an appointment to meet with a professional dog trainer in my area who trains almost all of the law enforcement dogs in this area. He will be doing most of the training on the male puppy. I will mainly focus my efforts on training the female. I am wanting a much more strict and thorough curriculum for the male and felt like with his experience, would be able to do a much better job than I could. I will mainly focus on a good obedience curriculum for the female. As far as my farm is concerned, we do not actually farm it or raise any cattle on it at this time. It is mainly used for my son and I to have a place to go and play, fish, hunt and just get away. The only time it really requires at this point is just general maintenence (i.e. - bush hogging, etc...) in which I have a large cab-over tractor where the dogs will be able to ride with me while I am performing these tasks. Our plans are to have our log home built on it within 2 years and we will then be living on the 50 acres full time.

Again, I will take all advice in consideration and do appreciate your reply.

Thanks,
Bryant

Your still 3 year old son is in school 5 days a week, 9 hours a day.....and you don't work?????

Wow, that's a huge amount of time away from the home for such a small child, I think the child needs you more than you need 2 puppies!!

But as a mother of 4( including an almost 3 year old) who works part time and has 2 GSD's and 3 cats, maybe I'm a personalizing a little. I HATE to leave my child at her school( which is an acclaimed performing arts school, BTW, including video in the class for all day viewing via a secure website) for the 5 hours she must be there daily.

I don't know how a parent could be away from their baby for that long all the time unless it was absolutely unavoidable, but that's just my view.....

So far Cindy, the experienced breeder/dog trainer, has made some good points.


Lets move on now, I don't think anybody is changing this guy's mind about the pups.

Keep the pups seperated as much as possible. You want them to be focused on you and other human interactions. . .not on each other and other doggy interactions. It is honestly pretty damn hard for a person to compete with the fun of another pup one's own age.

So limit that, raise and train them as seperately as possible.


As for the heat you got from Ms. Woods, you don't sound like you are starting up a quality GSD breeding program.

Whether or not this is what you are doing, you SOUND like you are starting up a pet puppy mill.

So I don't feel to bad for you.


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