Another episode in the Madar story... Perhaps a 'mea culpa' of sorts.

The foster dog, Madar, is like the cow that gives ten gallons of milk and then kicks over the bucket - have to have grown up around farms to get the irony, perhaps.

Been here since last Saturday. Went from no real command compliance to good response to basic commands. He is good around people, and he is good around female dogs.

He erupts around my male - did it three times since Saturday. Just got the two of them apart a little while ago, and it was a real dust-up. It isn't a posturing thing, he just goes off from zero to 100 in a heartbeat. So... I have to figure out the boundaries for this dog.

That was event three. It's like baseball - three strikes. The first one was a no touch sound and fury event - corrected immediately, and put apart. The second was tooth to tooth - broken up, and put apart. The third was a real go-around - broken up, and put apart period. So, no more interaction a-tall.

Now before I get the mail... The three events happened two days apart each, with obvious general behavior improvements manifesting every day. And the dog got here last Saturday. OK... I fully appreciate any confrontation between dogs is on me. I must protect my dog. I must protect the foster. And I must try to train and condition the foster.

The good news - if there is good news in a confrontation - my male dog broke the fight off with 'enough' but Madar had no such restraint trigger. And he was a complete armload.

Still, I believe he is trainable, he is people friendly - so far, he is good around female dogs - so far, but he ain't reliable around my male.

Perhaps the best I can offer this dog is training, and socialization with no inter-male confrontation. The objective is to get him oriented for adoption. Adoption is done with conditions, and an 'as-best-as-can-be-determined' operator's manual.

I think he is a good dog, he certainly demonstrates zero aggression toward people. He is trainable.

This is a frustrating behavior for a person who thinks every dog is entitled to a chance. I suppose it just will take more time and patience, and certainly more situational control.

The saga will continue.

 Quote: Mike Arnold

The good news - if there is good news in a confrontation - my male dog broke the fight off with 'enough' but Madar had no such restraint trigger. And he was a complete armload.

Mike, I'll leave the comments to folks that know what they are talking about , but just an observation:

You've only had him a week, and it sounds as though in all other areas he's coming along nicely. Your male knows that 'enough means enough'. Madar doesn't (yet). Are your expectations too high for him at this moment?

Ms. Barrows,

Probably.

Among my many fatal flaws is hubris. And another is a lack of patience.

Not giving up. But I can't be using my dog as a bite sleeve for the foster - not fair and irresponsible. Got to wake-up and do a much better job of manageing the interactions. Got to do a much better job recognizing signs before things go south.

Three steps forward, one step back. Gotta keep on keep'n on.

But I'd still say you're managing well with (holy cow... FIVE shepherds). You have realized your mistake and are not allowing your male to be put in the position of being attacked. While at the same time working toward making a good citizen of the newcomer. I still say good work.

Maybe you can work the foster around your male while (your dog) is in his crate or kennel as a distraction? Then you could determine safe distraction distance, as well as letting the new dog know you do not tolerate aggression. Of course, this would be AFTER the groundwork program is complete and the new dog has bonded. Maybe you can brush up on "Introducing a new dog into a home with other dogs" - this method has worked for my fosters.

It is possible you will not have this new dog long enough to really work with him... that's good too!

 Quote: mike arnold

No food control issues. Put down, take away, interrupt eating, etc. and no attitude, just a desire to eat. No aggression toward humans issues. Just his attitude toward Max... The females seem to have his number.

Sorry, I'm a little late to the party here...

This might be a totally dumb question, sorry in advance if it is, but since I only have experience training a pup manners, could those of you who foster, or work in shelters with adult dogs you don't know, tell me - how exactly do you test for "food control issues" safely?

I remember at some point seeing a rather funny video of some shelter that used a fake rubber hand on a pole to test a new dog's reaction to, well, I guess rubber hands ending up in their bowls ... but that can't be the only (or necessarily best) way to go about it. What are some standard procedures that don't involve possible loss of fingers, limbs or plastic digits?

Please enlighten me! Very curious!

~Natalya

Mike, good for you for taking on another foster! Sounds like a good start....

 Quote: mike arnold

The best way to deal with a new dog is with caution. And an awarenes of all the outward and visible signs a dog can exhibit... And, yes, I am relearning some of the outward and visible signs of a dog... We always learn, and learn, and learn... And when we think we have learned a lot and get a bit cocky, we get called out and have to recognize our short comings.

Excellent words to live by, Mike. Thanks for the thorough explanation.

One more question - when you refer to a "good dog collar", do you mean a prong, dominant dog, or just a sturdy flat collar? I admire your ability to do both the treat/food testing (handing a treat/putting down or picking up a bowl, etc.) AND the correcting all at once, with different hands - that's got to take some coordination practice. Maybe I'm just a bit slow, but I always find it really hard to focus on more than one thing in the heat of one of Oscar's "moments" - and big dogs especially have a way of overtaking space so quickly...

Anyway, kudos for all your hard work and constant education, for the sake of all your fosters - you're right, fretting over past lives is never very productive, it's the creation of stability in the present that makes for a healthy companion.

~Natalya

Ms. Zahn,

A good dog collar is a variation on a prong collar.

It helps to have long arms, a short leash, an inclination toward self-preservation corrections, and a low IQ.

Anybody that says they have it all figured out, and that there is a one size fits all approach to working with dogs, probably hasn't been bitten enough. That opinion was uncalled for.

And for clarity, I do only one thing at a time. If I intend to play with a new dog's food bowl, I have a serious death grip on the leash with one hand, my face well out of the way, a plan for retreat, and an abundance of caution, initially, at least.

A number of dogs are surrendered to the rescue for behavior issues - mostly because the owner is a nitwit who should never have taken on the 'responsibility' of owning a dog and couldn't train a Lionel.

Then too, time in a kennel can rattle otherwise balanced dogs. Kind of like a person spending nights in jail holding cell instead of their nice warm little house or apartment. It ain't the same.

Some others are found... Others still have to be surrendered by good people with real and compelling reasons. Still and all, a dog is uprooted and put in unfamiliar circumstances.

It is a feeling of good when a foster dog is placed in its forever home.

I dare say I fail more than I accomplish on any given day... That what it feels like today, anyway.

But there is tomorrow.