Thanks for all the good input... I need to clarify; I'm not working in Schutzhund or bite training, I'm simply using the word "out" to have Falcon drop/spit out what ever toy is in his mouth. He understands and is very consistent on "release" to let me take the object/toy out of his mouth, so I was adding "out" as another command simply to continue training while playing.

In regard to his being mouthy being an indication of having handler issues, I've given this a lot of thought before responding. I'm fine with telling you what I've been doing, even if it is wrong - that's the only way you can help. He never wears a prong collar while playing, so there have been no corrections of that type. The ONLY "negative" responses I've given to this (Falcon not dropping the toy when I am not offering a treat) is to turn my back, say "noooo" or to press open his jaws with my hand at the back of his teeth. This was not done in anger or hard - simply taking the ball back. My thought was if I allow him to keep it when I asked for it back, I'm telling him this is okay. (That which we ignore we train...) One day I did start to get frustrated with this so I simply stopped - put the toy up and came inside. Falcon may have picked up on my energy (my husband can attest that it comes across loud and clear :blush but he wasn't punished in any way other than not playing at that time. If any of those responses is causing handler issues, then I'm guilty and need to know what to do / not do in the future.

Falcon became "mouthy" when I introduced the ball for "out" to have a different toy to play with. He isn't allowed to sit and chew on any of the toys, but he does love the squeakers! I've gone to the non-squeaker balls now, but he still likes to mouth them. He won't play with a rigid ball at all. When training the "release" we have used either a rigid, toss type of toy or a "flying squirrel" neither of which squeaks.

In regard to the "pack leader" thought - although I am not saying it won't rule its ugly head at some point, right now that is not an issue. I can take a bone away from him when I decide its time to stop chewing, he goes in/out after a sit and behind me, has to follow me up or down stairs, and although I never take his food away once I set it in his crate, he is fine with my hand on the bowl or him while he is eating. Both my husband and I are consistent with this because in the past we were not with another dog, and we don't ever want to have a dog telling us what to do again!!

Since I'm not working on Schutzhund or bite training, I am obviously just using play time to bond and train. Falcon will drop the item if I'm offering a treat, but won't if no treat is offered. After giving thought to the insight you guys have offered, I'm going to go back to step one again. I'm going to retrain using the marker system since Falcon loves that concept due to the food. The introduction of the marker may be all he needs for the brain to fixate on something other then mouthing the ball. Once he is consistent on the "out" again, I'll use the offering another toy if he wants to continue mouthing the ball.

If anything jumps out at you that I'm missing or need to do differently, by all means let me know. I'd rather not be creating an issue which will bite me in the butt (figuratively speaking...) later on!

Barbara

Hi Barbara,

Just a quick question - will Falcon give up the ball without a treat if you say "Release"?

Two things spring to mind - can you train him to 'out' the same way you did 'release'; and why do you need 2 words that mean the same thing?

Rob

Good questions Rob...

Falcon came to me knowing release (we got him at 4 1/2 mo.) In my mind the "out" was different since I was using my hand on the item for "release" and asking for him to "spit out/drop" the item on "out" without my actually taking it from him. I started the second command simply as something new to work on, but am beginning to realize I may be trying to do too much with a six month old pup.

There seems to be a fine line between what to work on and what to not work on at this age.

Barb